Lip Discoloration in Jackson's

[Nrupaw]

I am noticing some discoloration on the tip of my Jackson's Lip. Here's my help form...

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Jackson’s Chameleon. Xanth (I believe). Male. 7-8 Months approx.. ~2 Months in my care.

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Never. Last time I handled it, was when I bought him home and transferred him into his Enclosure.

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
I feed twice a day. In the mornings, I alternate between ¾ to 1 inch Crickets (6 nos), and Small Dubia (4-5 nos). In the evenings I feed him a few Silkworms (size is hard to judge because I got them when they were super tiny and they grew over a couple weeks. They are now around 1 inch long).

I feed Crickets and Dubias with Rephasy Bug Burger mainly and for gutload I alternate between - Butternut Squash, Orange, Apple, Peaches, Raw uncooked Sunflower Seeds and Pears. I also leave a leaf of Kale in there once in a while, they don’t go for it often though

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Since it’s a Jacksons Chameleon, I supplement less.
RepCal WITHOUT D3 – 2 times a week. Wednesdays and Saturdays
RepCal WITH D3 – Once a month
RepCal Multivitamin – Once every 6 weeks

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
I use MistKing for watering, here’s my schedule…

6:00am Lights on.
Mist 1 – 6:30am for 3mins
6:45am -- Food
Mist 2 – 8:30am for 2 mins
Mist 3 – 10:30 am for 2 mins
Mist 4 – 12:30pm for 2 mins
Mist 5 – 3:30pm for 3 mins
Mist 6 – 5:30pm for 2 mins
5:45pm -- Food
Mist 7 – 6:30pm for 1 min
7:30pm Lights off

Total of 15 mins of misting over a 24 hr period. Cage dries off pretty well in between mistings

I also have a dripper I leave on for approx. 30-45 mins in the evening. Drops fall on leaves. He sometimes drinks via the Dripper.


Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
Fecal – Dark Brown. Non runny. Pretty well packed up & Urate – White with a very little tinge of Orange. Never been tested for parasites.
He poops pretty much every day.



History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
He is a Jacksons Chameleon so he stresses out pretty easy. I avoid handling him. but he will cup feed if I hold feeder cup up to him.



Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
All Screen Cage 36x18x18 from LLLReptile. Shower lining on 3 sides to keep humidity up. Front and top side is open


Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
50W basking bulb on a Flukers Clamp Lamp with Dimmer. Helps me to keep basking spot temps in the 80-85 deg range. 18 inch Reptisun 5.0 tube for UVB.
Light on 6:00am and Lights off 7:30am. Its not the 12 hrs on and 12 hrs off everyone recommends but this schedule helps me make sure cage is dry before lights go off.

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Basking Spot: 80-85 deg range
Ambient Temps: Mid to late 70’s
Overnight lows: 70-75 Degs. Sometimes lower to 65 if I leave AC on.

I measure with Digital Thermometer and a Handheld temp gun

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
I use an analog dial at the bottom of the Cage (calibrated with cup of salt water method). And 2nos. Exxotera Hygro/Thermo combo for top (basking spot) and middle of cage. Sensors placed accordingly.

Humidity at Bottom – 75%
Humidity in Middle of Cage – 60-70%
Humidity at top near basking spot – 40-50%


Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
I have 1 large pothos as a live plant. The leaves get pretty wet after misting and helps keep humidity up

Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Cage is on a table 30 inches off the ground. Away from fans, vents etc. Traffic is less.

Location - Where are you geographically located?
Minneapolis, MN



Current Problem - I noticed today that the front (tip) of my Jackon’s lip seem to be slightly discolored compared to rest of its lip. Is this normal or is it something I should be worried about?

I have attached 2 pictures. The first one, I took a couple weeks ago and doesn’t seem to have any discoloration of the lip in the front, the second one was yesterday where you can see the discoloration

PICTURES -- http://imgur.com/a/4jI2H

 

[Creaturelover123]

Can you get closer pictures???

 

[Nrupaw]

Can you get closer pictures???

I can certainly try. Gotta find a good camera from somewhere. Right now, i just used my iphone. Had to keep flash off because he was looking right at me and i didn't want to scare him.

 

[Creaturelover123]

That will really help

 

[sulfurboy1o3]

From the shots, they look normal zoomed in, maybe post some of your cham at a side view.
My male changes lip coloration all the time. mostly they pale yellow like how yours is, to a bright orange pink when he sleeps.
I think the "lipstick" on males is common in many chameleons species

 

[Nrupaw]

From the shots, they look normal zoomed in, maybe post some of your cham at a side view.
My male changes lip coloration all the time. mostly they pale yellow like how yours is, to a bright orange pink when he sleeps.
I think the "lipstick" on males is common in many chameleons species

Will work on getting a side view. Need to borrow a camera from a buddy. i just can't find where i put mine.

 

[kinyonga]

Is the lower lip on his right side slightly swollen?

 

[Nrupaw]

Is the lower lip on his right side slightly swollen?

I did look closely (thought it was maybe mouth rot) but it doesn't seem to be swollen from either side. Also kept an eye out see if his gums were turning brown. (when he was shooting for circkets), and couldn't pick up on any brown gums.

But will look closer tomorrow.

will try to take some side pictures but the guy just gets stressed the moment the cage door opens. WHen the screen is closed, he's all green but the moment i open the door, the green starts turning to brown spots.

 

[kinyonga]

Hopefully it's just the picture.

 

[xanthoman]

As per response to your pm, its not really practical for me to give an in depth reply via txt by phone. I would recommend trying to reach me by phone. Just briefly here are my observations.
1. Some yellowing of the outline of the lips is normal.
2. Your diet is imo, imbalanced and insufficiently diverse. It is also high in oxcalates and goitrogenics. Goitrogenics interfere with balanced pth (parathyroidhormone) function which can adversly affect kidney/ liver function.
3.imo, excessive feeding which expotentially exaggerates problems when otherwise imbalanced.
4. By repcal multivite I assume you mean reptivite. reptivite is a balanced product in itself in which no other vites should be added to the regimen in order to maintain preformed vitaminA at a 10:1 ratio with vitamin d3, however, reptivite is a comparatively high potency multivite and imo high potency products are not the best choices for montanes.
5. I would recommend discontinuing food and supps until you have had a chance to work out a better plan. For the short term feeding him nothing will be better than continuing an imbalanced diet. He looks pretty strong otherwise. Imo, he is easily good to go without food for 10 days or more and a food break will allow him to process any imbalances the maybe brewing.
6. There is a distinct and important difference between yellow and orange urates. Orange urates often indicates the presence of red blood cells in the urate which is indicative of kidney/ liver problems. Imo good you have posted early, onstead of wainting till more serious.

 

[xanthoman]

Sorry for the typos, tried to edit but was unable to get to the end of the paragraph. This is why I hate posting by my phone. Edit: instead not onstead and waiting not wainting. Anyway. Jmo

 

[Nrupaw]

As per response to your pm, its not really practical for me to give an in depth reply via txt by phone. I would recommend trying to reach me by phone. Just briefly here are my observations.
1. Some yellowing of the outline of the lips is normal.
2. Your diet is imo, imbalanced and insufficiently diverse. It is also high in oxcalates and goitrogenics. Goitrogenics interfere with balanced pth (parathyroidhormone) function which can adversly affect kidney/ liver function.
3.imo, excessive feeding which expotentially exaggerates problems when otherwise imbalanced.
4. By repcal multivite I assume you mean reptivite. reptivite is a balanced product in itself in which no other vites should be added to the regimen in order to maintain preformed vitaminA at a 10:1 ratio with vitamin d3, however, reptivite is a comparatively high potency multivite and imo high potency products are not the best choices for montanes.
5. I would recommend discontinuing food and supps until you have had a chance to work out a better plan. For the short term feeding him nothing will be better than continuing an imbalanced diet. He looks pretty strong otherwise. Imo, he is easily good to go without food for 10 days or more and a food break will allow him to process any imbalances the maybe brewing.
6. There is a distinct and important difference between yellow and orange urates. Orange urates often indicates the presence of red blood cells in the urate which is indicative of kidney/ liver problems. Imo good you have posted early, onstead of wainting till more serious.

Thanks for the heads up Xanthoman. Appreciate it. Will work on the point you provided.

Diet - So other than Crickets, Dubias, and Silkworms, what else does everyone recommend? I know hornworms are supposedly good but having a hard time finding them online.

For multivitamin, here's what i am using http://www.amazon.com/HERPTIVITE-Multivitamin-reptiles-amphibians-Bottle/dp/B00076HT3S

Will work on getting a picture of his Urates too. They seem to be turning more white. Stopped relying on just my Mistking. I now give him a shower with a hand held mister too. I think what was happening was that everytime the mistking would go off, he'd run away and hide.

 

[sulfurboy1o3]

May I ask about more details on the whole 'orange urates not being a good sign' thing.
I too also wonder what everyone may be using?
I use roaches, crickets, worms of a few kinds.

 

[Raffi]

As per response to your pm, its not really practical for me to give an in depth reply via txt by phone. I would recommend trying to reach me by phone. Just briefly here are my observations.
1. Some yellowing of the outline of the lips is normal.
2. Your diet is imo, imbalanced and insufficiently diverse. It is also high in oxcalates and goitrogenics. Goitrogenics interfere with balanced pth (parathyroidhormone) function which can adversly affect kidney/ liver function.
3.imo, excessive feeding which expotentially exaggerates problems when otherwise imbalanced.
4. By repcal multivite I assume you mean reptivite. reptivite is a balanced product in itself in which no other vites should be added to the regimen in order to maintain preformed vitaminA at a 10:1 ratio with vitamin d3, however, reptivite is a comparatively high potency multivite and imo high potency products are not the best choices for montanes.
5. I would recommend discontinuing food and supps until you have had a chance to work out a better plan. For the short term feeding him nothing will be better than continuing an imbalanced diet. He looks pretty strong otherwise. Imo, he is easily good to go without food for 10 days or more and a food break will allow him to process any imbalances the maybe brewing.
6. There is a distinct and important difference between yellow and orange urates. Orange urates often indicates the presence of red blood cells in the urate which is indicative of kidney/ liver problems. Imo good you have posted early, onstead of wainting till more serious.

Good to know.I had some issues with oversupplementation a few months back. I completely stopped supplementing him for a month. Now I supplement zoomed's reptical w/o D3 once a week. He still at times has a bit of orange in the urate or runniness.
Do Jackson's actually need to have supplement w/out d3 provided once a week or can they do for one and a half week w/out it.
The orange in the urate also look crystal like. So my scenario might be different. Please Advise.