Is this stuff good or bad to use for my feeders?

[HolyToledo]

I would greatly appreciate some advice about how I have been keeping our mealworms and crickets.

I have been having problems with my crickets stinking and dying off until I started putting this Mazuri breeder rat food powder in with the crickets. It looks and smells just like the Flukers cricket food. But, my intention was not as a gutload, more for bedding, to keep the bin drier and less stinky. I put fruit and veggies in for the gutload and there is no noticable amount of the powder missing when I clean the cricket bin. It worked so well that I started using it in the mealworm bin also. That way, I can put alot wetter fruits and veggies in for a few days without everrything getting icky.

Now that Mister Twister is ill, I mentioned that this is what I do and have gotten some questions back that have me concerned about whether this might not have been such a good idea. Can anybody tell me if this stuff is part of the problem?


Mazuri® Rodent 6F
Description
A diet designed for feeding rats and mice which are maintained in breeding colonies and intended for use as food for other species (such as reptiles).
Features
 Contains yucca shidigera - shown to reduce aerosol ammonia in animal facilities.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein not less than ....................... 16.0%
Crude fat not less than .............................. 6.0%
Crude fiber(max) ....................................... 6.0%
Moisture(max) ........................................ 12.0%
Ash (max) .............................................. 8.0%

Ingredients
Ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, ground oats, porcine animal fat preserved with BHA, cane molasses, wheat middlings, dehydrated alfalfa meal, ground wheat, ground soybean hulls, calcium carbonate, fish meal, salt, brewers dried yeast, dicalcium phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, dried beet pulp, wheat germ, corn gluten meal, soybean oil, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (vitamin K), pyridoxine hydrochloride, DL-methionine, choline chloride, dried yucca shidigera extract, cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), thiamin mononitrate, folic acid, biotin, dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E), calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, nicotinic acid, vitamin A acetate, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate.

1% Soybean hulls

Please help me out! Should I stop using this?

 

[shaunaroxanne]

I don't know about that stuff, but I put oatmeal in as a bedding and it GREATLY reduces the smell. I can't deal with them without the oatmeal.

 

[JackP308]

So your trying to use Rat diet for cricket substrate? I wouldn't be doing that but thats just me.

 

[suzi]

I don't anything about there rat food, but I do know that mazuri makes a tortoise food that a breeder I know uses as a gut load

 

[Ta2Smitty]

Mazuri makes a dry tortoise thats a great gutload. I know of two large scale breeders that swear by the stuff.

 

[jannb]

So your trying to use Rat diet for cricket substrate? I wouldn't be doing that but thats just me.

I agree. I would not use it.

 

[HolyToledo]

Bummer, it works so awesome!

It really put an end to my problem with the crickets getting damp and stinky.

I work for a rat breeder who uses the Mazuri feed for the rats (and they are good looking and healthy, vet checked, pet-quality rats but most of the rats go as feeders for snakes and reptiles.

So, I figured that since the rats eat the food and the snakes eat the rats, and the food is okay for that, a bit of the powder at the bottom of the bag wouldn't be too bad for the crickets if they did eat some of it. That is NOT their primary gutload though. I use fruits and veggies from the forum list for that.

When I was using oatmeal, it got gummy and tended to mold because I am really good at putting too many goodies in for the crickets to eat. This powder solved that problem because it absorbs the wetness and gets clumpy and pretty easy to see what needs cleaned out before anything gets gross and stinky...

I guess it might be back to the oatmeal, huh?

Thanks for the quick responses.

 

[JackP308]

try open high bin or cutting out tops and placing screen. You just need better ventilation, hydration, and to keep it fairly clean.

 

[HolyToledo]

Revising cricket care as per suggestions but...

I am listening and appreciating the advice.

I am just bummed that I need to revise my cricket care.

This stuff was like having clumping kitty litter in the cat box--awesome!

Whenever anything damp sat of it or the bin got to humid, this stuff is easy to clean.

I guess its back to stinky ol' egg carton and oatmeal... And entire bin cleaning all the time

 

[suzi]

I wouldn't write it off so fast. Contact sandrachameleon and ask her opinion on the ingredients, she is very knowledgeable in that area

 

[Whatcamo]

I wouldn't write it off so fast. Contact sandrachameleon and ask her opinion on the ingredients, she is very knowledgeable in that area

Then please post your results here as I just picked some up for the same thing!

 

[suzi]

Then please post your results here as I just picked some up for the same thing!

I just sent this link to Sandra, we will see what she say's

 

[sandrachameleon]

Thank you for your interest in my opinion

personally, I would not use it. There are proven ways to successfully keep crickets and mealworms that dont involve any questionable ingredients. Not that the ingredients are horrifying, just things I personally would like control over.

For example, Corn is not a good thing for our feeders to eat. Neither is fish meal a recommended gutload. Pig fat is not a recommended gutload item for insect eating lizards (plus BHA is possibly carcinogenic). Excessive Pyridoxine hydrochloride B6 can cause nerve issues / loss of coordination / reduced circulation. Menadione is fake vitamin K3 - there is some controversy as to whether this synthetic vitamin is useful (or even possibly toxic), so I prefer natural vitamin K1 which comes from seaweed and leafy green veggies. Vitamin D and acetate A can build up in the chameleons organs - what if you are both gutloading with these as well as using a supplement that contains them? etc.

I agree crickets can be stinky. Indeed for that reason, plus the considerable noise factor, I choose not to make them a large part of my chameleons diet. I buy only what I intend to use within a few days.

The best way to reduce cricket stink is to increase ventilation, greatly reduce humidity, clean regularily.

Mealworms can be kept in a substrate like this one:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/443-superworm-substrate-gutload-one.html

that said, I dont know what troubles Mr Twister is having, so its not possible to speculate as to whether or not the rat substrate would be a factor.

 

[djfishygillz]

Thank you for your interest in my opinion

personally, I would not use it. There are proven ways to successfully keep crickets and mealworms that dont involve any questionable ingredients. Not that the ingredients are horrifying, just things I personally would like control over.

For example, Corn is not a good thing for our feeders to eat. Neither is fish meal a recommended gutload. Pig fat is not a recommended gutload item for insect eating lizards (plus BHA is possibly carcinogenic). Excessive Pyridoxine hydrochloride B6 can cause nerve issues / loss of coordination / reduced circulation. Menadione is fake vitamin K3 - there is some controversy as to whether this synthetic vitamin is useful (or even possibly toxic), so I prefer natural vitamin K1 which comes from seaweed and leafy green veggies. Vitamin D and acetate A can build up in the chameleons organs - what if you are both gutloading with these as well as using a supplement that contains them? etc.

I agree crickets can be stinky. Indeed for that reason, plus the considerable noise factor, I choose not to make them a large part of my chameleons diet. I buy only what I intend to use within a few days.

The best way to reduce cricket stink is to increase ventilation, greatly reduce humidity, clean regularily.

Mealworms can be kept in a substrate like this one:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/443-superworm-substrate-gutload-one.html

that said, I dont know what troubles Mr Twister is having, so its not possible to speculate as to whether or not the rat substrate would be a factor.

Sandra I love your post/blogs about gut loading so much I spent 40 bucks and went to the supermarket getting ingredients for my gut load and I was hoping you could review it. I didn't have the list on hand of your mixes but I think I only purchased stuff you recommend. My thread is already started a few post up, I would really appreciate if you took a second and glanced over it.

Thanks!

 

[HolyToledo]

Thank you for your interest in my opinion

personally, I would not use it. There are proven ways to successfully keep crickets and mealworms that dont involve any questionable ingredients. Not that the ingredients are horrifying, just things I personally would like control over.

For example, Corn is not a good thing for our feeders to eat. Neither is fish meal a recommended gutload. Pig fat is not a recommended gutload item for insect eating lizards (plus BHA is possibly carcinogenic). Excessive Pyridoxine hydrochloride B6 can cause nerve issues / loss of coordination / reduced circulation. Menadione is fake vitamin K3 - there is some controversy as to whether this synthetic vitamin is useful (or even possibly toxic), so I prefer natural vitamin K1 which comes from seaweed and leafy green veggies. Vitamin D and acetate A can build up in the chameleons organs - what if you are both gutloading with these as well as using a supplement that contains them? etc.

I agree crickets can be stinky. Indeed for that reason, plus the considerable noise factor, I choose not to make them a large part of my chameleons diet. I buy only what I intend to use within a few days.

The best way to reduce cricket stink is to increase ventilation, greatly reduce humidity, clean regularily.

Mealworms can be kept in a substrate like this one:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/443-superworm-substrate-gutload-one.html

that said, I dont know what troubles Mr Twister is having, so its not possible to speculate as to whether or not the rat substrate would be a factor.

Thank you for your knowledge and willingness to share it here!

I have quit using it as bedding. I will also remember not to use cornmeal in the mealworms bedding like I have done before. Apparently, I need to spend alot more time studying the upkeep on my feeders!

So, quick question: When raising wax worms, the site I visited said to use a quality dog food ground up and mixed with honey as the base with bunched wax paper. I used this powder in that and the worms grew like crazy.

Do you also recommend that I quit using it for that also? Once the worms are catchable, I move them into wood chips and egg carton, just like they were when I was having them shipped. So, do I revise that set-up also?

 

[JackP308]

No do not use dog food.

 

[JackP308]

I wouldn't write it off so fast. Contact sandrachameleon and ask her opinion on the ingredients, she is very knowledgeable in that area

Yea I guess the above people aren't worth listening to then right. common sense does go a far way in caring for animals. You don't have to be super knowledgeable to know this is a bad Idea sorry.



Crickets are not really that bad to care for unless you got 1000's , search proper ways to care for crickets. You won't be needing bedding and you'll have healthy crickets and they should live longer. Key is to have good ventilation, hydration, space, gut load.

 

[K9Luvn]

Thank you for all the valuable information I have been able to obtain from this thread. I always avoid anything for any of my pets whether feline, k9, or reptile that is preserved with BHA & Ethoxyquin.... but have so much to learn about other products. Thank you everyone!

 

[whereswaldo]

i dont have to use either

I am listening and appreciating the advice.

I am just bummed that I need to revise my cricket care.

This stuff was like having clumping kitty litter in the cat box--awesome!

Whenever anything damp sat of it or the bin got to humid, this stuff is easy to clean.

I guess its back to stinky ol' egg carton and oatmeal... And entire bin cleaning all the time

got a glue gun ill show u what ferritinmyshoes showed me no smell!! make sure u glue all edges really well.

when it comes to cleaning a couple tilts and taps the poop and skins and any dead are in the corner lay it flat give the others a chance to get out there and awet paper towel will get all the crap no substrait for the crix.

 

[sandrachameleon]

...
So, quick question: When raising wax worms, the site I visited said to use a quality dog food ground up and mixed with honey as the base with bunched wax paper. I used this powder in that and the worms grew like crazy. Do you also recommend that I quit using it for that also? Once the worms are catchable, I move them into wood chips and egg carton, just like they were when I was having them shipped. So, do I revise that set-up also?

well, I am not a big fan of waxworms as a feeder generally, due to the very high fat content and low nutritional content.

That said, Honey is the key ingredient to raising them.

You can mix honey with bran and that works. Or mix honey with bran, plus a small amount or protein from a little dog food or a little high protein baby cereal or a little milk powder. For best results, Also add a little vitamin powder, a little bee pollen, a dash of brewers yeast, and a little glycerin (not the wood rose type).

more info:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/waxworms-13934/
http://www.dendroworld.co.uk/BDGarchive/waxmoths.html