Is this a bruise, infection, burn?

Osprey

New Member
Our female veiled cham has a strange color patch of skin (see pics) this is only on the left half. It stops at her spine, and right at the line down the center of her belly. The left rear leg has this coloration too.

She is about 3 yrs old and seems to be doing well other than this. Her appetite has decreased quite a bit in the last 3 weeks. all she wants to eat are super worms (chameleon crack).

Any ideas? The up close pic doesn't seem to show any anomalies to me.

Thanks
 

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Osprey

New Member
Thanks guys. She did the dig 2 weeks ago but did not look that much skinnier. She dug two holes and didn't fill one in. The other only partially filled (possibly just collapsed). Then she was not interested in digging anymore. So I thought she was done. Actually, I thought some of her size was due to me overfeeding her.

So I guess we're in a bad position now (egg bound). I need to find a qualified vet. Will start the google searches tonight for a vet in Philadelphia PA.

The first time she laid eggs a year or two ago, there were 60 jelly bean sized eggs. Amazing!

So can anyone give advice on 1) what to do if I can't get her to a vet for a few more days and 2) how does one transport a cham to the vet?

Thanks
Scott
 

Osprey

New Member
Can't get an appointment with a Vet for a week. Not sure sure how long before this becomes an emergency. She seems to be fine other than the low appetite and discoloration.

She eats from my hand still and is climbing around like normal. Strong grip still.

I'll call another vet tomorrow to see if they can see my cham earlier than next Friday.

In the mean time I will put her in the bin again to see what happens.
 

KatiLemons

Established Member
You should probably call the vet back and tell them that this is an emergency! You need to get her in asap if she is egg bound and has been for two weeks now. If you can't get into this vet then you should probably try finding a different vet that can see her now.
 

Osprey

New Member
Kicking myself for doubting my initial thoughts. She has been gravid 3 or 4 times since I've had her. This time she was gravid was a little different than before. Less floor roaming. No interest in digging in the laying bin at first. So I took the bin out for a week or so. Saw more roaming (hard to observe behavior when I am work) so I put her in the bin again. She didn't dig. So I started a hole. She sat in it. And sat in it. No eggs. So I covered her hole and just started a new one by hand. She finished digging that and sat and sat and sat.

Never covered her hole up. So I doubted myself and thought that well... maybe she is just fat. I was feeding her way too much anyway. (too much advice on the internet or my poor interpretation of said advice). I was feeding her 10 large crickets a day and some super worms. I read that super worms are real fatty and chameleons can get fat. So that is what I thought she was ...... fat. Should have trusted instinct.

The black is starting to appear in other places. It is on her neck now. Will be on the phone in the morning trying to get an emergency appointment. Will be kicking myself all night. Fortunately she still seems strong. Stupid ignorant human..

Any one have a concept of what this will cost me if surgery is involved?
 

chameleongirl2

New Member
Our female veiled cham has a strange color patch of skin (see pics) this is only on the left half. It stops at her spine, and right at the line down the center of her belly. The left rear leg has this coloration too.

She is about 3 yrs old and seems to be doing well other than this. Her appetite has decreased quite a bit in the last 3 weeks. all she wants to eat are super worms (chameleon crack).

Any ideas? The up close pic doesn't seem to show any anomalies to me.

Thanks

that is obviously a female, she may have eggs, it may be that she got hit....
 

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
She needs a good chameleon vet now. You might be able to find one in driving distance here. https://www.chameleonforums.com/area-area-country-vet-list-32880/
She should be eating 6 to 8 feeders depending on the size 3 times a week. Her basking temps should also be in the very low 80's. Once a female starts to dig they need complete privacy to lay their eggs. Below I have attached my egg laying/laying bin blog for you. I'm hoping the best for your little girl.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html
 

Osprey

New Member
Many phone calls and I was finally able to see a vet that had reptile experience today. As expected, x-rays revealed eggs.

I was not too happy about this visit. The Vet did not seem to know too much about chameleons. I think the receptionist thought that all lizards are the same. The vet handled Puff roughly. My 9 year old was so mad and almost in tears to see the vet examine Puff. I knew the abdomen would need to be massaged to feel what was inside. I knew Puff would have to be examined from all sides. I just didn't like how rough she was picked up without ensuring she let go of things first. I was afraid she would break a leg. Very stressful visit for Puff.

The doc said they have treated chameleons before, but not for egg binding. They have treated other reptiles and birds for egg binding.

The vet gave Puff an enema and gave me a calcium solution to give to her twice a day. She said to keep her in the laying bin all weekend at a temp of 95 deg. If she does not lay the eggs, the earliest they can do surgery is Monday. She said it will be a few hundred dollars. Not sure if that meant $200 or $600. And I am worried since they have not performed this operation on a chameleon before. I asked about oxytocin. The doc said that could run the risk of rupturing the egg sack.

FYI This visit with x-ray ran $168.

Can chameleons be spayed? The vet said they can. I have not read that any where yet.
 

Osprey

New Member
I called 2 additional vets to see if any one had done this surgery on a cham before. I got a call back from one place and the secretary said yes the doctor has done this before on a cham.

However the first doc called back to check progress. I told her that I was looking for a vet that has done this surgery on a cham. I told her I was concerned about the escalating cost of reptile health care and was considering increasing the odds by finding someone with experience. She was sympathetic. She did offer a fixed price of $200 for the surgery since it would be a learning experience for her. Then she remembered a colleague or friend vet not too much farther away that probably had this experience. She called that vet and called me back.

That vet confirmed the experience and said it would be between $200 and $300, and if the cham was still strong, recovery chances were good (relayed to me second hand by doc #1). I got the number and called to make an appointment. The receptionist said the doc left a message to tell me to drop the cham off for the day (drop off and pick up same day) for an exam. This place is an hour away and neither I nor my wife can make it tomorrow. doc is out on Thurs and Friday.

So the bill is mounting:
$170 for doc 1 exam and x-ray
I am sure doc 2 will charge for an exam and would not be surprised if he wanted anther set of x-rays +$170
Then surgery +$300
Total potential cost of cham health care $640 with no guarantee of survival.

I hate that cost is weighing in on the decision but finances are a fact of life. Maybe I can start a fund raiser or hold a beef and beer benefit. Hopefully God will steer me on the right path here.
 

laurie

Retired Moderator
My thoughts would be if you are going to the second vet, ask the first vet for the x-rays there. That would help defray a small part of the cost. I have never hear of a vet giving a cham am enema before when they are gravid. Was that a result of her now pooping for a while or what? Just wondering. Good luck
 

Osprey

New Member
My thoughts would be if you are going to the second vet, ask the first vet for the x-rays there. That would help defray a small part of the cost. I have never hear of a vet giving a cham am enema before when they are gravid. Was that a result of her now pooping for a while or what? Just wondering. Good luck

I didn't even know you could give an cham and enema. She did it just in case some of the mass in the x-ray was fecal matter and not all eggs. Eggs are evident in some areas but much of it is just a white blob.

Yes I am going to have vet one send the x-rays to vet #2 (or vet #3).

She is eating wax worms on her own. I think she is sick of crickets and that is why she would only eat one or two on her own. Unfortunately the dark spots are spreading to more of her body. Her entire tail is now dark and it is spreading to the right side of her body.
 

Osprey

New Member
When to see another vet today. This one has done surgery on egg bound chams before. He recommended 3 days of oxytoxin shots, to see if we can get her to lay them naturally. Since it has been 4 weeks since she first dug a hole in the laying bin we agreed that if she does not go naturally by Monday then he will do surgery in the afternoon. This vet also has kept Chams when he was younger so he knew a lot more than the first vet. However the first vet called me 3 times to check on Puff's health. She really does care. She just didn't have the experience.

So Dr. Denish will do the surgery on Monday 10/3 if the shots do not work. At the visit he gave her 2 shots of calcium and let me giver her a shot of Oxy. I have to give her one shot of oxy a day over the weekend.

He said he has done this surgery on many iguanas and bearded dragons, but only 5 chameleons. He said Chams are very different. Their tissue is much more delicate and they are not as robust. Out of the 5 he did he recalls that 2 did not make it but that was because they were in very bad shape when he got them.

So we are at $270 already and looking at another $300 to $500. Looks like I'll be working some over time for a while.
 

laurie

Retired Moderator
:(No eggs. Oxytocin did not work.

Surgery tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

I will have my fingers crossed with you. I sure hope all goes well for Puff. I would hate for both you and your child to lost Puff after all this. So i am sure it is all going to be ok, but I will be waiting to hear.
 

Syn

Avid Member
Best of luck Osprey! Many of us know how it feels to be in a situation like this.
Keeping my fingers crossed and what not, and depending on how you feel about it, I'll do a few incantations for her well-being.

I'm kidding, sorry, just a little bit of humor.. it's how I cope with things.
 
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