Infertile clutch carrying coloration

Jsiddens

New Member
Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon Female around 10 months old
* Handling - I dont handle her she doesnt like it once a month I take her out and put her on a plant while I clean her cage.
* Feeding - Crickets and Lobster roaches about 5-6 mouth sized ones every other day. The crickets and roaches eat dog food, melon spinach oats tomatoes apples lettuce oranges banannas and everything else. Ive fed her superworms and earth worms and once she ate a piece of a strawberry I put in there but has never done it since.
* Supplements - Zoo med calcium without d3 twice a week and zoomed reptivite once a week
* Watering - Automated misting system and hand sprayer. The first mist goes on a 9am for 1 minute 2nd at 1 pm for two minutes 3 rd for one minute. I hand mist around 5 pm. She likes to drink it off of leaves.
* Fecal Description - White tipped sometimes or just a dark log. Ive disolved one in water to kind of see what particles remained. Everything seems to be digesting well.
* History - The cages are next to each other and the male would just stare at her all the time and not eat until I put the divider up.


Cage Info:

* Cage Type -screen 2x2x4
* Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 and a 60 watt basking bulb on at 8pm off at 8pm
* Temperature - Basking spot is 90 degrees F the rest of the cage varies lowest temp is 70 degrees. Laser temp. Lowest night time was 60 degrees.
* Humidity - Ok I use a walgreens cool mist humidifier placed outside of the cage and when it's on it gets the cage humidity at around 55 with plants inside. After auto mistings and the humidifier being on it goes to 75-80%. It then takes about three hours to get back to 55%. I like to leave 3 hours in between to kinda let everything dry up a little bit. Digital with probe. I dont always use the humidifier.

* Plants - Pothos and reptivine.
* Placement - Low traffic area on a stand 8 inches from ceiling
* Location - Illinois U.S.





The prelude to my question
My female may be carrying her first infertile clutch. She used to show receptive colors but now shows non receptive colors and turns black with yellow lines when I show my male to her. I have not allowed them to breed as they are so young and I am not prepared to raise and find homes for all those babies at this time. She looks chubbier than normal in that area but I cant really tell it may be my imagination. I have filled a 5 gallon bucket and placed it in her cage with organic soil that I baked in the oven just to make sure it was carrying any bugs on who knows what. Then I moistened it and dug a few test tunnels. She will walk around it from time to time but has no real interest in being in the bottom of the cage or burrowing in to her plants .

Once a month during cleanings I show them to each other. The male makes his neck bigger and his colors get really bold. The female normally does not care what he does. Lately the site of him gets her hissing and rocking and this dark black color with the yellow lines. She holds this color for about an hour after she has seen him.

Now my questions
Is my female chams actions and color variations a good indicator that she is carrying eggs? Does a gravid female cham maintain this black color consistently or only when a male is near by or spotted?


Thank you for reading. Im sorry it was so long I just wanted anyone who offered me advice to be well informed.
 

Jsiddens

New Member
She didn't turn black when she saw my male this time but I did not do it very long due to my male biting me. This is what she looks like lately. More dotted than plain. Oh yeh both of my chams hate me. I just feed them and water them and try not to bother them. I didn't get them to handle them. It kinda scared me when he bit me just a second ago. Like looking at some dinosaur trying to eat me.
 

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robertc

Member
I have already seen both gravid chameleon females in regular colours and nongravid females in "gravid" colours. Maybe it is better to understand these colours as warning colours. In case your female has infertil eggs inside, she will behave the same way as if she was actually gravid.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
The female doesn't always maintain gravid/non-receptive colors when she is producing eggs.

On the following site scan down to "Breeding"...the photo below that word shows gravid/non-receptive coloration....
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

Another....
http://www.care2.com/c2c/photos/view/89/585354313/766523373/271452798.html

If the female is non-receptive/gravid and you bring the male near her, she will hiss, sway back and forth, gape, lunge at the male, darken her colors like in the photos above, etc.

If she remains her passive colors and remains calm and possibly moves slowly away from the male, etc. then she is receptive.
 

pssh

Avid Member
I don't see any yellow spots...? Maybe I'm just blind, but if she doesn't have yellow spots she isn't mature enough to produce eggs yet...
 

laurie

Retired Moderator
I don't see any yellow spots...? Maybe I'm just blind, but if she doesn't have yellow spots she isn't mature enough to produce eggs yet...
Hey Kara this little girl is 10 months old. She is plenty old enough to have eggs & my guess is she is "carrying" but it is too soon to be sure.

I would track her weight weekly if possible.
 

Jsiddens

New Member
The second pic of her when she sees my male is dead on kiyonga. I'll try to get better pictures soon.When she saw him the time before she had bright blueish green spots towards the top of her and yellow bars with a majority black color. This non receptive looks she has now in the picture i posted earlier is how she looks all the time. She Used to just be a peaceful green color with some rust colored lines and spots.
 

pssh

Avid Member
I was thinking that it might have been possible that he had gotten the animal and was given a false age.

I can sort of make out the blotches now.
 

Jsiddens

New Member
I have no idea. Eating remains normal the only difference is her color change. Maybe shes just becoming a woman. LOL. She never really goes towards the bottom of her cage or appears restless. There is a 5 gal bucket of dirt and sand in there just in case. Thank you everyone for all of your input. I will keep you posted.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
If she is showing those colors then she is non-receptive or producing eggs. Its been thought that showing the female to the male makes the female cycle and produce eggs...so if it were me I wouldn't show her to him until you want them to mate.

Do you have an opaque container (minimum 12" deep x 12" x 8") of washed playsand in the cage with her so she has a place to dig when/if she needs to lay eggs? (I don't want to read the post all over again to find out.)
 

Jsiddens

New Member
Yes its a play bucket a bit bigger than a five gallon bucket. I mixed my repti sand with some organic soil that i baked in the oven for an hour just in case. It will facilitate tunneling. I also have heard about the sight of a male can make a female start producing eggs.
 

Jsiddens

New Member
Well I got a better picture of her doing the black thing and her stomach area seems to be pretty bulgy. Tomorrow I think Im going to set up a trash can style laying chamber instead of the bucket.
 

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Jsiddens

New Member
Well in case anyone is keeping up with this thread she laid 32 eggs last night. She was ignoring her bucket in her cage and pacing crazily around the bottom of the cage so I put her in a trash can with 50 lbs of sand in the bottom and her lights shining down on her from the top. 2 hours later she began to dig. She dug for 8 hours and then came out and filled in her hole. I put her back in her cage and sprayed her for awhile so she could drink. Her eyes look a lil sunken so Im thinking she is dehydrated. I palpated her stomach as much as shed allow and didnt feel any remaining eggs. She still seems a bit edgy so Im going to avoid contact with her and put a few smaller roaches in her feed bowl with her calcium and vitamin. It seems like quite a strenuous task for such a small lizard.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Glad to hear that she laid the eggs. I would feed her and water her well for a couple of days and then cut back on the food to help the next clutch be smaller. If she doesn't behave normally in the next few days (shows any signs of going down hill) e prepared to get her to the vets....but fingers crossed that all goes well!
 

Jsiddens

New Member
Will do. I have never seen her seem to enjoy a hand misting before. Thanks for all your advice kiyonga. Your my fave goto person now.:)
 
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