Here's what I found...

[karebear41486]

So i just got home from Mother's day festivities and I found my female Ambilobe in my male's cage...and she is just sitting there next to him...I don't know how she managed to get in!! Its so weird...anyway, just wondering if that's ok to leave them together?? She is absolutely not showing any stress colors, they are basking together and my male is showing excited colors but looks a little unsure of her. The other thing is that she is 7 months and he is 6...is that ok??

 

[karebear41486]

now he is head bobbing and she is going over by him...

 

[karebear41486]

They are hiding in that plants now, totally going at it...so should i just leave them until she starts rejecting him? How exciting!

 

[Julirs]

Not very exciting actually. She is too young to be breeding, and those dark colors are non-receptive or the beginnings of. Receptive Panther females are bright orange-pinkish. You are compromising her longevity and bone health by breeding too young. However-it was probably too late when you noticed she had gotten in there.

 

[karebear41486]

I don't understand why she would go into his cage...or how she got in there! So what should I do now to make sure that she will be ok?

 

[naich]

nthing really exept seperate them.

 

[Julirs]

Yep-separate them. She will most likely lay eggs in around 30 days. Make sure she has a laying container available and make sure you are dusting with calcium 5-6X weekly.

 

[karebear41486]

So should i be restricting/reducing her food intake to make sure that she doesn't produce a large clutch?

 

[Julirs]

No-you should be doing that before breeding-but when they are closer to a year old. Feed her as you normally feed her or a tad more.

 

[karebear41486]

OK, thanks!

 

[karebear41486]

Does anyone else have any suggestions? Or advice?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Its a function of growth maturity, not age.

Here is the edited version of a PM response that I just sent to the OP, asking me for my opinion:

Kari,
I haven't had time to check the thread, or the posts of others, but this topic has come up over and over, and those that post that breeding is a function of "age" are incorrect. Its a function of size ... aka "growth rate". Advice hinged on age is usually based on people's experiences with growth rates of chameleons raised indoors under artificial lighting, which is not a very good basis on which to ascertain the natural history of any animal. Raised outdoors in warm weather and with a good diet, female pardalis can easily achieve full size and full breeding capacity in their sixth month, and sometimes sooner. Raised indoors and under artificial lighting, it can take 2-4 months longer. Whether or not she has been properly nourished to be bred at this time is a different matter, as she is subject to the captive diet provided by the keeper, and not as Mother Nature would necessarily provide. But that is not a function of age or size. Hope this helps.

If the female was receptive, then it matters not that her coloration was absolutely blanched or dull, etc. From the photos and the owner's account, she was certainly not showing any "stay-away" colors.

 

[karebear41486]

This helps! Thanks Jim!

 

[Julirs]

Jim-I am actually glad you have brought up the subject of outdoor Vs. indoors. One has to remember that nearly everyone on this forum is raising them indoors, and you are right about the fact that they seem to reach any kind of maturity more slowly that way. There is also the matter of hobbyist Vs. large scale breeder-where a better safe than sorry approach is well advised.

 

[rnara002]

Karebare dont freak out that female is totally receptive. Julirs is just being a hater. She looks to be in perfect shape and size. If that were my female she would be laying a few clutches by now. Jim is 100% right. If you dont know what a non receptive female looks like you will in a few days with that one. She will turn black and try to bite his head off.

 

[Julirs]

Wow-I am pretty sure that practically no one on this forum would call me a hater-and since you are brand new to this forum I think that was a bold and harsh statement. Jim is very knowledgeable, but he brought up the fact that raised indoors they do not reach maturity as fast. I have been to Jim's and his chams do grow quickly in the Florida sun-these are cold blooded animals we are talking about here you see. I in fact have one of Jim's chams that I have raised in doors. She is over a year and I have not bred her yet. I have also experienced early death (under 2 years) in chams bred too young. Hater? I think not.

It saddens me to recently see so many people treat female chams as disposable egg laying factories. I am proud to be a hobbyist breeder.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Julirs ....

Haven't peeked into this thread since my last post Sorry to see the harsh words used

You and I are in agreement about inside-outside and growth rates, etc. However, to clarify my earlier post, you had said this about that female:

She is too young to be breeding

and using your later post as context ....

I have been to Jim's and his chams do grow quickly in the Florida sun-these are cold blooded animals we are talking about here you see.

That female was produced and raised and grown to full size at my facility

It saddens me to recently see so many people treat female chams as disposable egg laying factories. I am proud to be a hobbyist breeder.

That is a little harsh. While many cautions need to be observed with females in captive breeding, the issue with a female that is ready to breed is not age. It is size and nutrition, and it is more the latter than the former. Hope all is well.

 

[Nicodemayo]

I myself take the age over size approach. Larger females I will wait until they are at least over 9 months old. This whole "breed her because she is receptive" philosophy, in my opinion, isnt the best route to take if you are a new keeper. From what I have experienced, with females raised indoors, they recover much sooner from laying, and overall just seem more suitable to lay. Rnara, believe it or not, but there are other experienced keepers that are open to giving helpful advice aside from Jim, and you can really learn alot when you take in multiple approaches on how to do things, especially in this hobby. She was trying to help, and I don't really think it was your place to call her a hater when she was trying to help karebear out. Also, how the heck does your female just appear in the cage with the male . Your lucky this didn't happen with 2 males, or you might have come home to 2 chams with ripped up faces and broken tails.

 

[Julirs]

Jim-that statement was not about you. I did not know that the female was from you nor do I think it is easy for anyone to guage size from a picture. The female I got from you was a tiny baby. I think it is clear from most of my posts that I err on the side of extreme caution-especially where newbie hobbyist breeders are concerned.

 

[panthercrazy]

I guess at this point, it is too late to worry if the cham is of age or size appropriate for breeding. Apparently, she felt she was as she found him.

I would think now is the time, to

1 - Ensure she can't sneak in there again for future.

2- Prepare her for what lies ahead. As suggested already, ensure she is getting an adequate diet with proper supplementations. Have a laying bin ready for her. Watch for the signs that she is getting ready to lay. With mine I found them to be very restless, roaming every inch of the cage. Appetite stopped for few days prior to laying and extremely thirsty.