Help! 2 yr old female veiled abandoned her hole

Emily K

Member
About a month ago Cleo, my almost 2 yr. old female chameleon was digging out around in her laying bin at the bottom of her cage. She saw me, so she didn't end up laying in the bin. She hasn't been to the bottom of the cage since. She hangs out at the top of the cage and has been digging in her hanging pathos plant on and off sometimes burying the hole, sometimes not. I have collected no eggs yet.



Last time I collected eggs (I honestly can't remember how many months ago...) they were extremely tiny, I almost didn't recognize they were eggs.

Yesterday she was digging. I heard her but did not see her, and I covered the cage with a sheet and left her alone. She slept in the hole.

she abandoned the hole this morning without covering it and looked normal in color but was puffed out like when she gets hungry. I have fed her crickets but I checked the hole for eggs, no eggs and I didn't recover the hole in case she wanted to go back in. Now she is hanging out above her mister and was falling asleep 2 hrs before her normal bed time. She looks dry and weak :(


I am scared since she has been digging for a month now with no eggs. Her eyes look a little sunken in and her upper belly is super small but her lower belly still looks really round.



I fear for her life and am going to call the vet tomorrow.



P.S. I fed her horn worms 2 weeks ago (she ate some pretty big ones) and she never ate them before I am not sure if this is what caused her some issues maybe going to bathroom? Her feces look normal. I have an automatic mister and humidifier. She was looking dry (I am in Michigan and it has been very cold and dry weather lately).

Bottom of her cage is pretty consistent at 74 degrees by the way. Top of her cage near her lights is between 83-87 degrees on average. I mist her sometimes manually as well.



Is there anything I should do? Should I show her the laying bin at the bottom?

TIA. I have been really stressed about her these past few days and I don't want her to go
 

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Emily K

Member
About a month ago Cleo, my almost 2 yr. old female chameleon was digging out around in her laying bin at the bottom of her cage. She saw me, so she didn't end up laying in the bin. She hasn't been to the bottom of the cage since. She hangs out at the top of the cage and has been digging in her hanging pathos plant on and off sometimes burying the hole, sometimes not. I have collected no eggs yet.



Last time I collected eggs (I honestly can't remember how many months ago...) they were extremely tiny, I almost didn't recognize they were eggs.

Yesterday she was digging. I heard her but did not see her, and I covered the cage with a sheet and left her alone. She slept in the hole.

she abandoned the hole this morning without covering it and looked normal in color but was puffed out like when she gets hungry. I have fed her crickets but I checked the hole for eggs, no eggs and I didn't recover the hole in case she wanted to go back in. Now she is hanging out above her mister and was falling asleep 2 hrs before her normal bed time. She looks dry and weak :(


I am scared since she has been digging for a month now with no eggs. Her eyes look a little sunken in and her upper belly is super small but her lower belly still looks really round.



I fear for her life and am going to call the vet tomorrow.



P.S. I fed her horn worms 2 weeks ago (she ate some pretty big ones) and she never ate them before I am not sure if this is what caused her some issues maybe going to bathroom? Her feces look normal. I have an automatic mister and humidifier. She was looking dry (I am in Michigan and it has been very cold and dry weather lately).

Bottom of her cage is pretty consistent at 74 degrees by the way. Top of her cage near her lights is between 83-87 degrees on average. I mist her sometimes manually as well.



Is there anything I should do? Should I show her the laying bin at the bottom?

TIA. I have been really stressed about her these past few days and I don't want her to go
 

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kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
Please don't disturb her...all the checking and activity you are creating around her cage may prevent her from laying the eggs.
Cover the cage with the sheet...make sure your egg bin is set up properly...deep enough (8" or so) and filled with washed playsand that is just moist enou to hold a tunnel.

It would be helpful to know when she laid the last batch and how many eggs she laid.

This is the way it should go....which you should know since she's laid eggs before...
She may dig several test holes but should decide on my ne and dig it until she's happy with it. She should turn around butt down in the hole...usually in the evening...and lay her eggs. It can take a long time or be fairly quick. She should fill the hole in and return to the branches after she has laid them all. She should be hungry, thirsty, thin then.

As for,he vet ...I really hate this part....taking her to the vet can give you information on the eggs...but if she's digging to lay the eggs, disturbing her could make her not lay them...so you're darned if you take her and darned if you don't.
 

Emily K

Member
Please don't disturb her...all the checking and activity you are creating around her cage may prevent her from laying the eggs.
Cover the cage with the sheet...make sure your egg bin is set up properly...deep enough (8" or so) and filled with washed playsand that is just moist enou to hold a tunnel.

It would be helpful to know when she laid the last batch and how many eggs she laid.

This is the way it should go....which you should know since she's laid eggs before...
She may dig several test holes but should decide on my ne and dig it until she's happy with it. She should turn around butt down in the hole...usually in the evening...and lay her eggs. It can take a long time or be fairly quick. She should fill the hole in and return to the branches after she has laid them all. She should be hungry, thirsty, thin then.

As for,he vet ...I really hate this part....taking her to the vet can give you information on the eggs...but if she's digging to lay the eggs, disturbing her could make her not lay them...so you're darned if you take her and darned if you don't.
Thank you so much for your reply. Her laying bin was not moist enough so last night I stirred in some water so it will clump. I will make sure to get a sheet over the cage and leave her be.

I want to say maybe August was the last time she laid eggs. I think in total, she has laid 3 times. And this last time her eggs were extremely small and "bead" like. Not leathery. I read it is possible for them to not lay eggs but it's honestly pretty confusing to me.

I will do my best to give her absolute privacy!
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
August sounds like it could have been the right timing between clutches. Do you know how many eggs she laid then? The other times?

You said..."I read it is possible for them to not lay eggs but it's honestly pretty confusing to me"...it's pretty straight forward to stop a veiled female from laying eggs or at least decrease the clutch size and number of eggs she lays...which should increase her life expectancy and decrease the chances that she will develop reproductive issues.

Once she lays this clutch (not now)...feed her well for 2 feedings and then cut the amount you feed her down to 3 to 5 crickets (or equal value in other insects) every second or third day. Decreasing the amounts he eats will decrease the size of the clutch...and in many cases cut the egg production out completely. You also need to decrease the basking temperature to 80F. This slows her metabolism and hopefully makes her feel a bit less hungry. The first clutch she lays after you start this "diet" could still be larger than what we want because it can take some time to get things under control.

This site gives the value if someone of the insects...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/02SepDonoghue.html
 
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Emily K

Member
I laid the sheet over her cage these past few days. I looked at her this morning and her lower belly is way down. I think she finally laid thank God. But I'm going to show you what her eggs look like. They are so tiny it's extremely hard to find them and they are not in a clutch they are dispersed through the soil. I found this one in her bin, (I squeezed it to know it wasn't just the white substance in the soil) and yes it squirted with liquid and it's leathery....

Thoughts on how small these "bead" eggs are? Is this normal? Her very first clutch looked much larger, like tic tacs.
 

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Emily K

Member
I laid the sheet over her cage these past few days. I looked at her this morning and her lower belly is way down. I think she finally laid thank God. But I'm going to show you what her eggs look like. They are so tiny it's extremely hard to find them and they are not in a clutch they are dispersed through the soil. I found this one in her bin, (I squeezed it to know it wasn't just the white substance in the soil) and yes it squirted with liquid and it's leathery....

Thoughts on how small these "bead" eggs are? Is this normal? Her very first clutch looked much larger, like tic tacs.
Also she is alone in her cage, never been mated before. I want to cut out egg laying completely if I can. So I will put her on that diet you mentioned!
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
I've never seen a chameleon lay eggs like that. Are you sure she's just laying them now? Could she possibly have laid them a while ago and you just didn't know?

She should be laying them all at one time...one after the other...in the same spot. Sounds like she's dropping them and that's not usually a good sign.
 
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Emily K

Member
I've never seen a chameleon lay eggs like that. Are you sure she's just laying them now? Could she possibly have laid them a while ago and you just didn't know?

She should be laying them all at one time...one after the other...in the same spot. Sounds like she's dropping them and that's not usually a good sign.
I didn't find any eggs at all in her pot, just that one and it might be from the last time.
 

Emily K

Member
Honestly, it could be a couple weeks old since she has been digging on and off for a month? She is still eating and drinking and using the bathroom. She hasn't been hanging out at the bottom of her cage at all, her color looks normal. Today her lower belly isn't especially plump like when I first posted... I called the vet about the eggs being so small and they said it's possible they could be deformed. To take her in if she starts losing weight or stops eating and drinking.... I have been very stressed to say the least.
 

Emily K

Member
Alright quick update. She is once again, digging in her pot. I don't think she saw me peeking this time, hopefully she finally lays. Keeping the sheet over her and staying away. I will peek and see if she is out by tomorrow morning. Fingers crossed!
 
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