Glass vs. screen

Jam

New Member
screened cage ... they allow for better ventilation so there is a lesser build up of bacteria, which is much healthier for the cham.
 

Heika

New Member
The article that Will is referencing is for people who live in extremely dry climates, such as Alaska. The cages in that article still allow for good circulation, because they are made from perforated boards, similar to Drake's veiled cage.

For the most part, a screened cage is much more appropriate for a chameleon for exactly the reasons that Jam said. There are exceptions to the rule.. if you live in Alaska, or the artic, or a desert, you may want to consider another type of caging. Probably not an aquarium, unless you are keeping one of the leaf chameleons. I live in a very dry climate, and instead of using an aquarium for my panther, I use a screened cage and compensate with a room humidifier and extra mistings. It seems to have worked out well. Since you have been discussing veiled chameleons, it is safe to assume that a screened cage would be your best option and be the healthiest for your chameleon.

Heika
 
ALASKA? My goodness... "UP NORTH" is not reffering to Alaska at all. Far from it.

Chris Caetta and Wolfgang Kruger were both using "Up north" style cages while they were living in Ohio- Not Alaska. Many people in Canada and the northern US states are needing to use solid sided cages as opposed to screen to compensate for temperatures and 0% winter humidity. And don't tell me that Canada/NorthUS is the same as Alaska.
 

Heika

New Member
You know as well as I do that screened caging is much preferable over an aquarium for a veiled chameleon. While I don't see anything wrong with the perforated wood cages used in the article that you are referencing, I would NEVER tell a person new to the hobby that an aquarium would be a good alternative. And, actually, the reason I mentioned Alaska is because I know a person who keeps chameleons quite successfully there, and uses the type of caging mentioned in the article. Adding heat and bacteria build up in an aquarium (not to mention drainage) to the learning curve for a new keeper is not only irresponsible, it is cruel for the animal involved. I know that you live in an area that is very dry and cold in the winter.. so do I. I compensate, as I mentioned in my prior post. Now that we have dragged evertech's question far off topic, I would like to know what kind of caging you use to increase humidity. Your personal experience would be a valuable addition to this thread.

Heika
 
Heika said:
You know as well as I do that screened caging is much preferable over an aquarium for a veiled chameleon. While I don't see anything wrong with the perforated wood cages used in the article that you are referencing, I would NEVER tell a person new to the hobby that an aquarium would be a good alternative. And, actually, the reason I mentioned Alaska is because I know a person who keeps chameleons quite successfully there, and uses the type of caging mentioned in the article. Adding heat and bacteria build up in an aquarium (not to mention drainage) to the learning curve for a new keeper is not only irresponsible, it is cruel for the animal involved. I know that you live in an area that is very dry and cold in the winter.. so do I. I compensate, as I mentioned in my prior post. Now that we have dragged evertech's question far off topic, I would like to know what kind of caging you use to increase humidity. Your personal experience would be a valuable addition to this thread.

Heika
Heika, no need to put words into my mouth. I disagree, a screened cage is not always preferable over a solid sided cage. I didn't say that aquarium would be provide the correct living conditions either. I don't think anyone here has mentioned the word "Aquarium" aside from you. Aquarium suggests "fish tank" in which the dimensions would almost positively be incorrect to provide suitable living area. I know personally, one of the original AdCham founders uses Aquariums for young chameleons and custom-made glass sided (Screen front/Tops) cages for their adults. I have also witnessed the death of chameleons here in screen cages from low heat and humidity.

Excessive heat, bacteria build up, and drainage are all concerns that do need to be taken seriously, but if someone is not willing to put forth the effort to create a solution to each problem, how can this person be responsible enough to care for a creature with such high demands. Too many people buy a cage and a chameleon on the same date, and not enough people have their cage up and running to be monitored for a couple weeks to ensure its conditions are suitable before their new arrival.

I don't think we have gone off topic. The questions was 'what is the best caging solution?'. The discussion is that there are too many factors based on species and climates, to give a straight answer to such a broad question.

Since you asked, I have done much experimentation using screen cages, fabric sides cages, and plastic cages. Although I have had the most difficult time using screen cages, so to improve I created cages where the rear and side panels were tightly stretched fabric. The fabric did help a great deal with humidity, and as a plus, I was able to sit cages side by side without having chameleons see each other. During the Fall/Autumn, Winter and Spring part of the year I have had difficulties maintaining higher humidity and decent enough temperatures outside of basking areas. During this time, water droplets dry in minutes or less because humidity is often near to 0%. For example, after a shower in the morning I don't even need to dry my body before clothing myself because the air immediately beings to quickly absorb any available moisture. My home is located just north of the NY, Niagara Falls border.

This season, I will need to build all new cages to make the more difficult seasons, a little less hectic. I have already planned out the cages, using white corrugated plastic on the rear panel, side panel, and bottom panels of each cage. Part of the front, and entire top will be heavy duty black Nylon door screen. Heat will escape from the top, but the solid sides should insulate against the winter chill. The bottom panel will be angled and have drainage holes. Plastic siding, as well as other smooth siding materials are actually easier to keep clean and simple to wipe daily, as opposed to screen, which you can forget trying to sanitise. The white sides will ensure that there is plenty of light in the cage. Fans are always going in the reptile room to improve air flow and circulation.

I'd be happy to post photos next month when the first unit is completed.
 

Heika

New Member
Will Hayward said:
I don't think anyone here has mentioned the word "Aquarium" aside from you. Aquarium suggests "fish tank" in which the dimensions would almost positively be incorrect to provide suitable living area.
Umm.. read the question at the top of the thread.

evertech11 said:
which is better a glass aquarium of a screen cage?
Aquarium vs Screen Cage. That was the question.
 
My mestake. I'm willing to admit to it. I should have reread the thread right to the beggining before replying.

However, my concern is that the mentality that screen cages are always better than any other options, is wrong.
 

Heika

New Member
Will.. a screen cage is a great place to start, and for the majority of chameleon owners, a great place to finish.

Your new cage sounds like it will be fantastic for your particular climate. I would like to hear how it goes for you.

Heika
 

exoticpetluvr

New Member
Lunatic913 said:
*bell rings. round three! *bell rings
LMAO, I was thinking it before I read it. I think the point that was made here was... that so many of us have been told at some point that "this is is the way it's done, and this is the only way it's done". Everything about pet keeping in general is flexible to a point. I can't even begin to tell you haw many times I have gotten into disputes with people on other forums because I didn't a agree with "The Law" of the majority rule. Just because someone does something diferent doesn't mean it's the wrong way, and just because 90% of people do it one way doesn't make it the only way. Oh, and if I had a penny for every time someone said "there are exceptions to every rule".... Who wrote these rules? Is there a secret list?
It seemed to me that the original poster was looking for opinions. Instead of offering up individual opinions there was a short debate about who was wright and who was wrong. Why can't both methods be acceptable?! Does there always have to be a right or wrong? Just because you don't agree with someones ideas doesn't make them wrong either.

Just my opnions and some thoughts to consider.
 

Dojo

New Member
As someone who started out with my first cham in an tank and my second in a screen, I can tell that Kumar(the one in the screen) is much much happier. I live in PA if that helps at all..
 

Carlton

Chameleon Enthusiast
LMAO, I was thinking it before I read it. I think the point that was made here was... that so many of us have been told at some point that "this is is the way it's done, and this is the only way it's done". Everything about pet keeping in general is flexible to a point. I can't even begin to tell you haw many times I have gotten into disputes with people on other forums because I didn't a agree with "The Law" of the majority rule. Just because someone does something diferent doesn't mean it's the wrong way, and just because 90% of people do it one way doesn't make it the only way. Oh, and if I had a penny for every time someone said "there are exceptions to every rule".... Who wrote these rules? Is there a secret list?
It seemed to me that the original poster was looking for opinions. Instead of offering up individual opinions there was a short debate about who was wright and who was wrong. Why can't both methods be acceptable?! Does there always have to be a right or wrong? Just because you don't agree with someones ideas doesn't make them wrong either.

Just my opnions and some thoughts to consider.
I think we also forget what gave rise to these "rules" in the first place. Back in the beginning days of cham keeping most people assumed that chams could be maintained in the ubiquitous glass tank just like a the red-eared slider, the box turtle, corn or king snake or terrestrial lizards commonly seen in the average pet shop. Chams earned a reputation for short lives and heartbreak for many reasons including the enclosures sold along with them. Fast forward to the days when keepers experimented with birdcages and higher ventilation type screen cages. Chams started surviving more often or at least they were not dying from respiratory infections, overheating, etc. Now we know that caging depends on many factors and that there isn't one simple answer to that question.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Absolutely right Carlton...there isn't one simple answer to the best choice of caging.
It depends on the climate you live in, the climate that you create/exists in your house (is it airconditioned, etc), how you set up the cage (where you place the lights, how you deal with excess water, how humid or dry it is, how air flow is, etc).

For years I kept chameleons in glass cages with screen lids back in the dark ages" and they lived long healthy lives...but I paid a lot of attention to where the lights were placed to create a chimney effect (good air flow) and to the drainage so no stagnant water was left in the cages, etc. I then switched to all screen cages and found that here in Ontario the chameleon's sat up under the basking lights most of the year because the rest of the cage was too cold. I found it was difficult to keep the humidity up, etc so I switched to glass cages with screen doors and lids....same issues with these. I did the best I could to compensate for these problems but it wasn't easy here but the chameleons still had good long healthy lives. Then I switched to glass cages with screen lids and vents in the front of the cages and found this to be the best of all for where I live. Just one example of why some caging works better in some conditions .
 

leedragon

Avid Member
the keyword here is aquarium.
the first person says a glass aquarium.
the second refers to an article of glass TERRARIUMS not aquarium.
the third takes it back to aquarium and the discussion started.
 
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