Genetics? How do they work? ( Rather Long Post )

#1
New theory... NEED OPINIONS!!

Alright, I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and finally i have some time to sit down and think this out. To make this simpler, i'll put questions in this color.

Genetics. To make this simpler, lets narrow this down to one species: Chamaeleo Calyptratus.

For weeks now i have been pondering the dominant and recessive genes of the various chameleons inhabiting this planet. To make this simple i have decided to narrow it down into probably one of the most well known, and most widely owned chameleon species, Chamaeleo Calyptratus AKA the Veiled Chameleon. Now, as we've all probably seen by now, there is at least one "morph" of the Veiled Chameleon, The Translucent/Transbald Veiled chameleon. This is an album containing pictures of my High Translucent Veil https://www.chameleonforums.com/mem...s-our-high-translucent-veil-male-sweeney.html .

Now, my question is, What are the Dominant/ Recessive genes of veiled chameleons?

Breeders, Have you seen any patterns forming in your babies? I had briefly talked to someone about genetics in chameleons and this is how they explained it to me.

Breeding a High end Translucent Veiled Chameleon with a High end Translucent Chameleon would result in roughly the following varieties of babies.
100% High Translucents

Breeding a High end Translucent Veiled Chameleon with a Low end Translucent Veiled Chameleon would result in roughly the following varieties of babies.

75% High Translucents
25% Low Translucents

Breeding a High end Translucent Veiled Chameleon with a regular Veiled Chameleon would result in roughly the following varieties of babies.

50% High Translucents
25% Low Translucents
25% Regular Veils

Breeding a Low end Translucent Veiled Chameleon with a Low end Translucent Veiled Chameleon would result in roughly the following varieties of babies.

100% Low Translucents

Breeding a Low end Translucent Veiled Chameleon with a Regular Veiled Chameleon would result in roughly the following varieties of babies.

50% Low Translucents
50% Regular Veils

Breeding a Veiled Chameleon with a Veiled Chameleon would result in roughly the following varieties of babies.

100% Regular Veils Haha!:D


So, now after having to read through all that, what is your opinion? Does that make reasonable sense? More importantly, going back to my original question. Does anyone know some basic chameleon genetics?


Thanks so much for any help i can get. This is a thrilling subject for me and seeing as i do plan on breeding my veils, its not totally random! Also, feel free to pitch in with genetics on other species of chameleons. I am happy with any information i can get. So if you happen to know basic, kinda foggy genetics, or are an expert geneticist with some epic degrees in reptile biology... haha Pitch in!

Thanks guys and girls!!!
 
Last edited:

pssh

New Member
#2
I thought it was:


Breeding a High end Translucent Veiled Chameleon with a Low end Translucent Veiled Chameleon

50% high, 50% low


Breeding a High end Translucent Veiled Chameleon with a regular Veiled Chameleon

100% low end


Breeding a Low end Translucent Veiled Chameleon with a Regular Veiled Chameleon

50% of both low and normals



I'm a little tired, so I could very well be thinking incorrectly.
 
#4
Translucent sounds a lot like a co-dominant gene to me. I've got experience breeding boa morphs, not chameleons, but the Hypomelanistic gene in boas is a co-dominant one. Co-dominant X co-dominant= completel dominant AKA super form. Hypo times Hypo = 1/2 super hypo, 1/2 hypo. Super hypo times normal= All hypo. Hypo times normal= 1/2 hypo, 1/2 normal. Now, there could be several different genes for color for Chameleons, and there are probably more different color alleles as well which is why not all of this matches up with translucent chams. But from what you described, neither seem like a single dominant OR recessive trait.
 
#5
interesting, Thank you so much for your input! it helps so much. This is going to be a big puzzle for me and the more input i can get, the easier the pieces fit together! thank you
 
#6
No problem at all. I'm always glad to help whenever I can. There's a lot more to genetics than one would think, so the more we all pool our knowledge the more likely we can figure it out.
 
#7
IF I am correct it would be a Punnett square. Assuming that regular chameleons are dominant over translucent, they would be RR. the high end ones are probably recessive since they are less common so rr. and the low end trans are Rr. I may be wrong, but thats what I'm assuming.
 
#8
If you bred a high end (you stated it was recessive) to a normal, you would just get Normal het. high end, not low end. That's what leads me to believe translucent is co-dominant, and there's no Punnett square layout for that I don't believe.
 
#9
So, Your thinking its a co-dominant.. so

If the High translucent. Ie one co-dominant,

breeds with a regular, Ie another co-dominant..
then the resulting chameleons would be the mixed, or lower end chameleons?

haha wait. i read that again and thats not what your saying... Hmm
 
#11
Haha, it's absolutely fine. I think that low end is co-dominant, and high end is a complete dominant form of low end. Now, there very well may be a higher number of genes for pigment in chameleons than boas, and a higher number of alleles of each of those genes too, which is why it probably doesn't match up EXACTLY with my Hypomelanistic boa example.
 
#12
Ohhh! okay that makes much more sense then how i was thinking of it! haha! Thank you. So the High end side is the dominant, the low end side is the co-dominant. Yes i know i just restated what you said but thats how i process things haha!
 
#14
My next question, for the moment haha... Is what about color traits? My veil has lots of orange and yellows. I've seen some at rest with mostly yellow and blues. Obviously there is some genetics to it but what dictates what.... Not sure if you could answer that scales .. so here is one for scalestailsandclaws.. What other animals do you work with?
 
#15
I currently breed leopard geckos, ball pythons and emperor scorpions. I CURRENTLY have the following and will be adding to this collection in two weeks:
2 ball pythons
2 red tail boas (1 coral albino.)
1 Argentine black and white tegu
4 leopard geckos
1 diamondback terrapin
2 iguanas
2 bearded dragons
1 crested gecko
1 whites tree frog
1 rough green snake
1 black rat snake
1 chaco golden knee tarantula
3 antilles pink toe tarantulas
1 honduran curly hair tarantula
1 mexican red knee tarantula
1 emperor scorpion
1 tiger reticulated python

I'll be adding
1 panther chameleon
1 yellow anaconda
1 scarlet kingsnake
1 northern water snake
1 sulcata tortoise
several poison dart frogs
1 northern copperhead
2 rough green snakes
1 hypo het. coral albino red tail
 
#16
My guess about color traits is that it's probably similar to all other colors/morphs out there. There are probably recessive colors, dominant colors, co-dominant colors (Translucent for instance) and such. Different locals of panthers express different colors. Breed two different locals and see what the results are. The phenotype will tell you which colors are dominant over which other colors in the genotype. Remember, there is more than just one gene for color. Just because you have a normal chameleon doesn't mean each gene for color is homozygous dominant. There very well may be some heterozygous alleles for those genes thrown in there that are not in the phenotype, and won't be expressed in the phenotype of the offspring unless another cham is added into the genepool that carries the same recessive traits.
 
#19
You are certainly lucky! haha School was rough for me and i didn't get to pursue what i wanted until after highschool. Now i'm making up for lost time. Ps i love Tegu's i have 2! why no monitors???? Certainly impressive. I am looking forward to testing out your theory.
 
Top Bottom