Female veiled shot my male veiled!!! WHY???

CesarGueretty

New Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - I have two veiled chameleons and one is a female and one is a male. They are about 6 months old and I've had them for about 4 months.

Handling - The male puffs up and moves away from me and hisses if I try to hold/touch him but the female lets me hold her. I don't do it more often than once a couple of weeks to reduce stress levels.

Feeding - I feed them 20 medium crickets about 3-4 times a week. I buy the crickets from Prehistoric Pets (a well renown reptile store) so I'm pretty sure they gut load they crickets.

Supplements - I use zoo-med repti calcium with every feeding and I'll use the exo-terra multi-vitamin dusting about once a month or so.

Watering - I mist them twice a day, once in the morning before I go to work and once in the evening when I get home from work. I was told veileds don't need too much watering because they're desert creatures but I do it twice a day anyway. I mist them for about 2 minutes each time which soaks everything inside the cage and leaves everything dripping. They drink a little while I'm misting but usually just drink from the drippings of the leaves.

Fecal Description - They've never been tested for parasites that I'm aware of. Their droppings are always half white and half black with some yellow tinting or smearing. This has not changed.. ever.

History - They were born and raised together. I was actually looking to buy only one chameleon but they guy told me they do better in pairs and that they've grown up together so I felt bad separating them.
These are my first chameleons ever so I'm learning everything as I go although I did do a lot of research before I got them.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Their cage is completely screen all the way around and is about 1.5 feet wide and 1.5 feet deep and 2 feet tall.

Lighting - I turn their UV light on in the morning when I leave for work and I turn it off when I go to sleep at night. Their infrared light is always on for warmth. UVB light is exo terra and was recommended again by the expert at Prehistoric Pets. the infrared light is "All Living Things" brand.

Temperature - Their temperatures range from 85-90 degrees during highs in the basking areas to 70-75 in the lows in the basking area. I don't have a thermometer further away from that in the cage.

Humidity - I keep their humidity levels up with the daily misting and I measure it with a hygrometer (spelling?). It usually stays in the moderate levels, raising to low tropical levels when I spray them.

Plants - No live plants. All synthetic purchased at Prehistoric Pet.

Placement - The cage is on a desk at the end of my room. There is a fan sitting on the opposite side of the desk that is extremely quiet and I run at night pointing away from them. (This is for MY nighttime temperature control :D ) The top of the cage is about 4-4.5 feet from the floor. (About halfway from the ceiling to the floors. I have a short-ceiling room)

Location - Where are you geographically located? I live southern California in Orange County.

Current Problem - I have been trying to find a thread about something similar but was unsuccessful. If there already is one I'd love to read it. My female chameleon seems to be aggressive toward the male sometimes and chases him around for a minute with an open mouth. Today I witnessed her shoot her tongue at his face!!! I was so discombobulated by the event! Does this mean she hates him???? Do I need to separate them?? Her tongue was stuck to his face for a couple of seconds until she was able to detach it!!!

Another thing I'm NOW concerned about after reading other forums is that sometimes she seems to grab her own legs with her other legs. I'm reading that this may be a sign of MBD??? She doesn't have ANY of the other symptoms I've read about. This is the only one she shows... Should I be concerned? SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!! I only want my little ones to live a happy and pain-free life! Although I am new to chameleons I have had pets all my life and have always taken good care of them!

Oh and part 3... (lol, sorry. I just wanna make sure they're ok)
They haven't been doing this very much or at all lately but sometimes they walk/crawl around the inside perimeter of the cage over and over and over again for a reason I can't find. Does this mean they're too hot, or too cold? Or does it mean they're bored? Or stressed?

Thank you all for ANY help you can provide. I really do appreciate anything you can suggest! Please correct me if I'm doing anything wrong!!! I'll post up images of my babies tomorrow!

The boy is named Mambo and the female is Salsa. :D
I've been dancing mambo and salsa for the past 12 years so it felt adequate. :cool:

Thanks again!!!

~Cesar
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
They need to be separated right away...especially since she is acting aggressively to him. From her behavior towards the male I expect that she is already gravid...and that's a shame since she is so young.

Do you have a suitable place inside the cage for her to dig in so she can show you when she's ready to lay the eggs? Failure to provide such a place can lead to eggbinding. The female may be roaming the cage looking for a spot to lay.

The leg grabbing could very well be caused by a nutrient imbalance.
 

Mr Wilson

New Member
Sorry to tell you but your doing quite a few things wrong. #1 they need to be separated NOW. As they grow and get older its very possible one will hurt if not kill the other. Get an minimum 18x18x36 for the female and a minimum 2'x2'x4' for the male. #2 Im sure your local pet store does not gutload their crickets. If anything maybe just with some sort of dry cricket crack. They need to also be gutloaded with fruits and veggis. You can do a quick search to find a list gutload. #3 Yellowish tint in there fecal may be a sign of dehydration. hard to say, but you def need to mist more the twice a day. #4 You have the calcium and multi Vit, but your feeders should also be dusted with calcium w/ D3 about twice a month. #5 As long as your night time temps dont drop under 60ish you do not need a night time heat lamp. #6 You should really get some real plants in there cages. #7 Never ever listen to whom ever sold you your chams ever again. At Least with chameleons they have NO idea what there talking about.

Please dont take it personally, it's not your fault your were given horrible Info. I went through the samething.
 

Julirs

New Member
Those experts were NO experts for sure. As stated, you need to separate immediately, and you will need much larger caging. Chameleons are solitary creatures best housed alone. They are also easily stressed by each other and this causes health isssues. Do you know the exact kind of your UVB? Is it the screw in kind or a long linear tube? You need to make sure that there is NO glass or plastic between the UVB light and the top of the screen cage as UVB does not pass through glass or plastic. Make sure you are measuring basking temps with a digital thermometer. And, they absolutely need water-that Desert species thing is just crazy-misting them twice a day until the plants are nice and drippy (live plants are best) will suffice.
 

laurie

Retired Moderator
Sorry but I know prehistoric pets well. First the crickets you are getting are NOT gutloaded, they get potato's for moisture. That is not even close to gutloaded as they need to be.

You can either drive to Oceanside to LLL Reptile or go to sponsors at the top of this page and you will find the screen cages you need at won't cost an arm and leg. The cage you have the 2 of them in is to small for either one alone.

While going to/ordering from LLL get some Exo terra repti sun UVB bulds. get the 5.0 tube ones. Get a cheap fixture at walmart or home depot. Get live plants, home depot have both umbrella and ficus which are great plans for chameleons. After you get the plans, we can tell you how to get them ready to go into a chameleon cage.

Keep in mind these are just the first steps I would follow to have healthy chameleons. You can do whatever you decide. Hope it goes well for you.
 
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Aminah Undone

New Member
Did you get the Chams from a private seller or from Prehistoric Pets? Or do you just buy your feeders from Prehistoric Pets? You probably should clarify that before Jay (the owner of Prehistoric Pets) gets blasted and flamed in his absence. While they don't specialize in Chameleons, they are perfectly capable of giving proper care advice, in my experience.

As far as your Chams go, separating them would be the very first priority! Good luck with them! :)
 
I feel so lucky to have Liddy @ Kammers. But more important, the responses on this thread were so thoughtful, concise and replied with a compassionate response.
Thank you, from all us newbies looking for help!
 

jojackson

New Member
They could do with more water, the yellow color of the urate indicates they are not getting enough. A dripper system will help to achieve this. You could make one yourself or purchase a commercial unit, which is basically a large plastic bottle with a tap/tubing.
Preferably the dripper should run atleast a few hours a day to allow the lizard/s ample opportunity to drink. Sometimes lizards may need to be encouraged to drink, this can be done by misting over the head until you see them start to lap it up. Sometimes this can take several minutes of continuous misting.

Despite having been raised together, your lizards are now at or very near maturity.
As adults these lizards are largely solitary animals which only get together to mate.
I expect the restless pacing you describe is due this need to avoid each other.
It would be wise to house them separately from now on, since they may become agressive toward each other, particularly when the female is non receptive (dosen't want to mate) and one may dominate the other for basking opportunity, food water etc.

If you need a fan at night, Id suggest your lizards dont need any night heating. (winter may be another story).
 

CesarGueretty

New Member
OH NO IT SOUNDS LIKE I'M BEING COMPLETELY NEGLECTFUL!!! :eek: :(

I'm writing a quick reply before I go to work but I'll write back more later tonight THANK YOU ALL FOR WRITIG BACK SO QUICKLY!!! I appreciate it!
I'll definitely get this all fixed ASAP!

And to answer one question, I did not buy them from Prehistoric Pets. I only buy the feeders there. I did not know I needed to gut load them myself and I mean no offense to any of the employees at Prehistoric. They're all amazing people!

Anyway, I'll read over these again tonight and start working on correcting everything ASAP! Thanks! Any other suggestions are most definitely helpful!
 

jojackson

New Member
Relax mate, you managed to keep them happy so far and based on
less than accurate advice too. Your doing ok, and provided you make a few
changes before problems arise, you'll continue to so. :)
 

Carlton

Chameleon Enthusiast
I only buy the feeders there. I did not know I needed to gut load them myself
Live and learn...NEVER assume a pet store gutloads their feeder insects, and even if they do it will only last until the insect excretes it. You must set up boxes for your feeders that includes fresh gutload (chunks of fruit, fortified cereal grains, dark leafy greens) all the time.

Yikes, some of the info you got was really off base (they do better in pairs-wow!). At least you found us before it was too late.
 

Psi

New Member
#2 Im sure your local pet store does not gutload their crickets. If anything maybe just with some sort of dry cricket crack. They need to also be gutloaded with fruits and veggis. You can do a quick search to find a list gutload.
Would be great to know how you know every pet store doesn't gut load their feeders.
People constantly assuming things leads to more problems.
 

ChamChick

New Member
OH NO IT SOUNDS LIKE I'M BEING COMPLETELY NEGLECTFUL!!! :eek: :(

I'm writing a quick reply before I go to work but I'll write back more later tonight THANK YOU ALL FOR WRITIG BACK SO QUICKLY!!! I appreciate it!
I'll definitely get this all fixed ASAP!

And to answer one question, I did not buy them from Prehistoric Pets. I only buy the feeders there. I did not know I needed to gut load them myself and I mean no offense to any of the employees at Prehistoric. They're all amazing people!

Anyway, I'll read over these again tonight and start working on correcting everything ASAP! Thanks! Any other suggestions are most definitely helpful!
Bad info on chams is everywhere, so it's really not your fault :)

Now you have some good info, and still have time to correct it! Some people don't find out their initial info was bad until it's too late :(

Good luck with everything, and I'm sure once these things are corrected, they will do just fine!
 

Midnighthwk

New Member
i thought the " desert " part was funny.
not all but a lot of people in sales will say what is needed to sell more stuff.

it cost too much for petstores to gutload let alone feed the "feeders" and sell them so cheap.
u can ask the store where u get your feeders if they even feed them.
the ones here dont feed them or water them (crickets, superworms, mealworms, waxworms, goldfish, minnows). unless u count them eating eachother as feeding them.

i have turtles so thats why i added the fish.
 

Elizadolots

New Member
Im sure your local pet store does not gutload their crickets. If anything maybe just with some sort of dry cricket crack.
Wow...what I wouldn't give to have a feeder source that fed their crickets Cricket Crack....That's high quality gutload, that is.

Not all stores are created equal. Yes, it's probably true that most don't toss assorted greens and fruits into the bin, but many do provide nutritional gut load (like Cricket Crack, though probably not Cricket Crack but something less expensive and less nutritious).

I know one store that feeds their crickets cardboard.

See how much better just about anything that's considered "food" seems now?
 

Mr Wilson

New Member
Wow...what I wouldn't give to have a feeder source that fed their crickets Cricket Crack....That's high quality gutload, that is.

Not all stores are created equal. Yes, it's probably true that most don't toss assorted greens and fruits into the bin, but many do provide nutritional gut load (like Cricket Crack, though probably not Cricket Crack but something less expensive and less nutritious).

I know one store that feeds their crickets cardboard.

See how much better just about anything that's considered "food" seems now?
Yea im being optimistic about that one. At least most of the stores around me feed their crickets flukers gutload. Weather it be cricket crack, flukers, tomato, tomata, potato, patota, still not what they need :D
 
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