Corn Meal

i've tried searching the threads but no luck, but i was wondering if cornmeal was an ok gutload/medium for wax worms and superworms. i would like to add some asap so i can store them away until i need them.
 

Cham Fan

New Member
I found this interesting link for maintaining a wax worm colony (which is pretty different than keeping supers):
http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Live%20Food,%20Wax%20Worms.htm

for keeping supers you can use a medium of rolled oats, wheat bran, chicken mash, corn meal, or "worm chow" (Available thru most bug distributers). Pretty much any grain or cereal can be used as a storage medium/food source (as long as it isn't a "sweetened flavored cereal" natural cereal only like corn flakes, puffed rice, etc.).

Carrots work best for a moisture source for supers, apples tend to put too much humidity into their enclosure so I would only suggest apples with in the 24 hours before you plan on feeding the super so he is properly gut loaded for your herp. Using cornmeal would be more of a storage medium than a gutload food. You should use apples, potato, carrot, and maybe some leafy greens to gutload your feeders. Here is a good article on gutloading: http://carolinapetsupply.com/gut_loading_insects.html

Here is another helpful link for raising supers:
http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Live%20Food,%20Super%20Worms.htm
 
I found this interesting link for maintaining a wax worm colony (which is pretty different than keeping supers):
http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Live%20Food,%20Wax%20Worms.htm

for keeping supers you can use a medium of rolled oats, wheat bran, chicken mash, corn meal, or "worm chow" (Available thru most bug distributers). Pretty much any grain or cereal can be used as a storage medium/food source (as long as it isn't a "sweetened flavored cereal" natural cereal only like corn flakes, puffed rice, etc.).

Carrots work best for a moisture source for supers, apples tend to put too much humidity into their enclosure so I would only suggest apples with in the 24 hours before you plan on feeding the super so he is properly gut loaded for your herp. Using cornmeal would be more of a storage medium than a gutload food. You should use apples, potato, carrot, and maybe some leafy greens to gutload your feeders. Here is a good article on gutloading: http://carolinapetsupply.com/gut_loading_insects.html

Here is another helpful link for raising supers:
http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Live%20Food,%20Super%20Worms.htm
Awsome Cham Fan, thank you. i just wanted to make sure. ive had corn meal in my pantry for a long time and always thought about it, procrastinated on asking till now :p so ive read any oat cereal mixed with honey untill gooey can be used as a medium. rolled oats, cornmeal and a little bit of honey seems to be cool then. i do want to refrigerated them, but would take them out the night before to eat way and get loaded. snd i certainly do not want the mixture gooey, but good enough to have a little bond together. thanks for the info!
 

Cham Fan

New Member
You can't refrigerate the super worms it will kill them. They need temps around 65-75*f. They're not like mealies that you can refrigerate into stasis and keep for several months fine like that. So hopefully when you referred to refrigerating the bugs you were talking about the waxies since they use the honey mixture. Supers should have a non-sticky medium from what I understand of their care. Just the cereal/brans/mash feeds and gutloading foods. I would use caution with an old box or bag of corn meal esp. if it has been opened. It could have mold spores or other contaminants from sitting unused for so long. You might just want to get new or go to tractor supply and get a bag of chicken mash. It's really inexpensive & lasts forever.
You're very welcome for the info. Glad I could help.
 
You can't refrigerate the super worms it will kill them. They need temps around 65-75*f. They're not like mealies that you can refrigerate into stasis and keep for several months fine like that. So hopefully when you referred to refrigerating the bugs you were talking about the waxies since they use the honey mixture. Supers should have a non-sticky medium from what I understand of their care. Just the cereal/brans/mash feeds and gutloading foods. I would use caution with an old box or bag of corn meal esp. if it has been opened. It could have mold spores or other contaminants from sitting unused for so long. You might just want to get new or go to tractor supply and get a bag of chicken mash. It's really inexpensive & lasts forever.
You're very welcome for the info. Glad I could help.
the meal is in sealing containers and isnt super old. it would be about 2 months ish.

yes i was refering to the wax worms when talking about refrigeration. i just dont want the waxes to molt and cacoon themselves. my medium and food for the supers is rolled oats and cornmeal(now) as medium, and sprulina, dried kelp, small amount of repashy and bee pollen, will be adding some dried alfalfa today.
 

Cham Fan

New Member
How are your supers getting moisture? You can either keep carrots in there 24/7 or use the cricket orange cubes or water crystals for sufficient hydration or they will die.
 
a baby carrot and a few pieces of lettuce are changed every other day.

i appriciate the help and all the extra tips, but ive got all of that. my main questions were just about the cornmeal :p thank you for everything though!
 

jdog1027

Established Member
Cornmeal isn't the best for a gutload, but you can use it as a base, just as long as you add some better items with it (spirulina, kelp like you mentioned). I think most people are critcal about any gutload that is corn based. But if you read the ingredients to alot of the commercially sold cricket gutloads (I wont list any brandnames) in the big chain pet stores, you'll see alot of them are corn based. I don't think it's the best stuff to use, but it is definitley usable. Just be sure and augment some more nutritious sfuff with it.
 

ferretinmyshoes

Veterinarian
Staff member
Cornmeal isn't the best for a gutload, but you can use it as a base, just as long as you add some better items with it (spirulina, kelp like you mentioned). I think most people are critcal about any gutload that is corn based. But if you read the ingredients to alot of the commercially sold cricket gutloads (I wont list any brandnames) in the big chain pet stores, you'll see alot of them are corn based. I don't think it's the best stuff to use, but it is definitley usable. Just be sure and augment some more nutritious sfuff with it.
You'll see everything corn-based because that is the cheapest ingredient available, not because it's the best. It's also the main ingredient in dog and cat foods usually, especially the lower quality brands because it's cheap and bulky so they add weight/content with minimal cost. Don't know about you but I've never noticed cats, which are obligate carnivores, ravaging any corn fields lately! So don't base your decision on the cheap standards of companies just trying to turn a profit.
 
Corn is fine as a holding medium. however Its a poor gutload choice.
ahhh the nutrition guru i was hoping would chime in. yes, my base is mostly using it as base, i would rather my worms eat oats and cornmeal then wood shavings. i added honey in with the waxworms. only. what do you use as gutloading wax worms sandra? i remember reading that you seldomly to never use wax worms for chameleons, but possibly other animals? what would you recommend a good gut load for waxies?
 

Cham Fan

New Member
Just to clear up one myth about corn being so horrid in petfoods.... it is only horrid when the BY PRODUCT is used. Whole kernal corn used in petfoods is actually an alternative protein source and less likely to cause allergic reactions than wheat or soy which are #1 (soy) and #2 (any type of wheat product) cause more reactions in dogs than whole kernel corn.

for the op... not looking to cut off sandra but all the standard gutload items should apply across the board when gut loading feeder insects from my understanding of gut loading. Hopefully sandra will be able to tell you if there is any veggie/fruit that will be harmful to your cham or the waxie.
 

ferretinmyshoes

Veterinarian
Staff member
Just to clear up one myth about corn being so horrid in petfoods.... it is only horrid when the BY PRODUCT is used. Whole kernal corn used in petfoods is actually an alternative protein source and less likely to cause allergic reactions than wheat or soy which are #1 (soy) and #2 (any type of wheat product) cause more reactions in dogs than whole kernel corn.

for the op... not looking to cut off sandra but all the standard gutload items should apply across the board when gut loading feeder insects from my understanding of gut loading. Hopefully sandra will be able to tell you if there is any veggie/fruit that will be harmful to your cham or the waxie.
I didn't really say it was horrid, I was just commenting that you shouldn't place emphasis on its value based on how it is used in other foods since it's the cheapest alternative. As for gutload value - corn is very low in calcium and a little higher in phosphorus, which is the wrong ratio. Check this site for nutritional data on many fruits and veggies.
 

Cham Fan

New Member
I was referring to the general public's misconception about corn in pet food ferret, not really directerd towards you. I would be happy to discuss with anyone the pros and cons of corn in petfood and the spoonfed media/sales hype that too many listen to if they'd like to pm so we don't hijack.

Honestly, even tho the caresheets say corn meal is an acceptable storage media for supers, I would want to learn more about the process of how cornmeal is made and if it's using the whole kernal or cast-offs to be better equipped to weigh out the pros and cons of using it as a storage media since yor feeders will eat it. Personally I use a combination of rolled oats mixed with some crushed high quality dog food a carrot a potato and an apple wedge that are changed every 3-ish days. My supers are HUGE and shed often because they grow so fast, my leo Loves the freshly shed supers (a little more nutritious for your herp too imo). On the gecko forum wheat bran and chicken mash are the most commonly suggested media for supers.
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
i remember reading that you seldomly to never use wax worms for chameleons
You remember correctly. I dont use them.

However, you may find this useful:
(taken from http://www.dendroworld.co.uk/BDGarchive/waxmoths.html)

Mixture 1
300 ml clear honey
400 ml glycerol (=glycerine)

Mixture 2
200 g milk powder (Cow and Gate)
200 g wholemeal flour
100 g yeast powder (dried brewer's yeast)
100 g wheatgerm
400 g bran

Mixture 1 should be prepared first and then mixture 2 (each separately), and then mixture 1 should be blended thoroughly into mixture 2. In addition, I mix in liberal helpings of Vionate, Stress and SA 37, as well as topping the whole thing off with grated beeswax. This all makes for a rather wet mixture somewhat like partially melted toffee, and there will be enough to set up several smaller cultures or one (very) large one.
 
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