Closing Eyes and Pale in Color

[ChameleonAlley]

Ok, I really need some help all.

Starting today, Ziggy was closing his eyes in his cage. It started with one eye and throughout the course of the day became both of them. On top of that, he is acting more lethargic than usual and he has become pale in color. What I mean by pale, is that when he is normally darker in his cage, it is almost like he is fired up. He's much lighter in color than usual. I have seen him drink today. He ate one cricket from what I saw yesterday. He did not eat today.

I have given him numerous showers, as well as put him outside for about an hour in beautiful weather. He is still pale, moving slower than normal, and closing his eyes.

My first thought was some kind of impaction? If this were the case, the showers have not helped him go to the bathroom. If mineral oil is something that might help this, can anyone tell me how much I should administer.

I'm getting worried here and would really appreciate any help. If nothing changes by the morning, we're going to the vet.

 

[jannb]

I would recommend a vet visit and find out what's going on. These little guys go down fast. Do you have a good chameleon vet?

Also if you will fill out the ask for help form the member here can make sure that you are doing everything correct and see if there's anything that might be causing his problems.....like the coil UVB bulbs can cause eye problems.

 

[ChameleonAlley]

Update on care info.

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Male Panther, 3 months

* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

Not very often, once every 2 weeks maybe


* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

Feeding both Dubias and Crickets, 3/4" every other day. About 5-6 crickets. We gutload the crickets and roaches with collard greens, carrots, and apples


* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

Herptivite, Calcium, Calcium with D3. Herptivite and Calcium every other feeding and Calcium with D3 once every two weeks.


* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

Mist like a rainfall at least 3 times a day. Cham drinks very healthily.

* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

Fecals have always looked great, solid and white urates. Have noticed he hasn't pooped in a few days that I've seen.

* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

 

[ChameleonAlley]

I would recommend a vet visit and find out what's going on. These little guys go down fast. Do you have a good chameleon vet?

Also if you will fill out the ask for help form the member here can make sure that you are doing everything correct and see if there's anything that might be causing his problems.....like the coil UVB bulbs can cause eye problems.

Thank you Jann. I think a vet visit will be the next in order here. I didn't fill out the cage info because we have 7 very healthy chams in total, and all their temps are right, uvb is not coil, and basking spots correct temps. They are all in suitable size cages, as I am very meticulous about all these things.

 

[ChameleonAlley]

We have a very good vet who used to take care of my Iguanas when I was a kid. I have never taken the chams to her before as there as never been a problem.

I found these guys from the Herp Vet Connection:

Oklahoma City
Jeff L. Henderson, DVM
Britton Road Veterinary Clinic
2826 West Britton Road
Oklahoma City, OK 73120
Tel: (405) 751-8007
[Website]
Comments:
Generally will treat domestic WC herps for free. Has treated two iguanas and several snakes, both WC and CB. Highly recommended for his knowledge, experience, and compassion for herps and their owners. (04/05/04)

Sue Schrag, DVM
Schrag Animal Clinic
8000 S. Pennsylvania Ave
Oklahoma City, OK 73159
Tel: (405) 681-0829

I was thinking of calling them in the morning. Has anyone ever experienced the pale coloring happen before?

 

[jannb]

A 3 month old should be eating tons everyday. Don't start feeding everyother day until he's 7 or 8 months old.

Dust with calcium without d3 at just about every feeding, Calcium with d3 twice a month and the Herptivite once maybe twice at the most a month.

What about your lighting?

Basking for a 3 month old should be 80 to 82.

 

[ChameleonAlley]

Oh no, he's about 6-7 months. I've had him for about 3. Sorry about that.

 

[ChameleonAlley]

Should I take him to the emergency vet instead of wait until tomorrow?

 

[jannb]

Should I take him to the emergency vet instead of wait until tomorrow?

Can you post a picture of him? The way he looks now?

 

[ChameleonAlley]

Can you post a picture of him? The way he looks now?

Well, I've called my vet and didn't get an answer. I left a message though it's not like her to answer. The only other exotic vet won't be able to see him until tomorrow.

Here's a picture, but it's hard to tell what I mean. He basically has stayed the lightest colors I've ever seen him. I just wish there was something I could do to help the situation better. I'm afraid to let him go to sleep.

This picture really doesn't show to well what I was meaning.

In your opinion, what does closing eyes and lethargy mean if it's not related to lighting?

 

[jamncristian]

impaction would be my guess

 

[SpinyFranky]

could he perhaps have a URI?

do you hear and "snap crackles and pops" ??? clicking sounds and foaming at the mouth can be a big give away as well, URI's sometimes start with lethargy... though closing the eyes might be a stretch on that one...

Were his arms (front arms) always that thin? they like very very slender to me, and when I look at my sambava in his cage next to me... the arms look much bigger. My sambava is only around 3 months ahead of your Ziggy.... but im just saying anything that comes to mind that could possibly help

regardless of this, for future reference and of course you may choose to disagree, but I would say 6-7 months is a tad early to stop the daily feedings. At 6-7 months they usually are nearing the end of maturation, but I would still think that daily feedings are appropriate (females of course excluded). However I would easy say that by 8 months every other day is a good schedule. Not trying to attack/flame you at all mate, just constructive advice .

Please update this thread with what the vet says... im curious to know for my further knowledge.

S.F

 

[ChameleonAlley]

Thanks for all the input both of you. I do not think it is URI, as he is not making those sounds or bubbling from the mouth. Though, I won't rule out anything. My first guess is still impaction.

This all came about suddenly today. Does anyone have any advice that I can do tonight? I've done the long showers and had him outside to no avail. Has anyone had any success with the mineral oil?

 

[jannb]

Maybe this thread from earlier today might help you.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/meds-question-40474/

 

[SpinyFranky]

is he drinking when you put him in the shower? sure the water might "stimulate" him to poop and what not... but it really works best if hese drinking.

I have no info on mineral powders, sorry mate. But I would try reptaid, if you have some on you. That stuff can really do wonders, same Sambava I mentioned before had runny poo for a while (parasites I think though the fecal was clean ). He is still on his reptaid course but the poo has become much better, and reptaid was the only product I used.

IMO - perhaps he is about to shed? usually lightening of coloration is sometimes the start of a shed...

just throwing ideas around.

S.F

 

[ChameleonAlley]

Thanks again guys. I wish I could get that lactulose. I will also check out the reptaid. He has drank quite a bit today. He is just weak. I read that being pale means a cham is too weak to regulate color. This just all happened all of a sudden today. He is an extremely active cham, so this is weird.

I always hear that when they go down, they go down fast. In your all's experience, does this usually mean in 24 hours or less? He's now sleeping and I don't want to disturb him unless there is something I can do to take care of this.

 

[ColorCham427]

Kevin,

What is the ambient temp?

What's his basking spot's bulb's wattage?

Has he been basking?

How humid does it get in the room?

Do you have a fan in the room going?

Does he have any visible sight to any other chameleons? Living animals? No posters of chameleons in the room or anything?

 

[ChameleonAlley]

Hey Brian,

His basking spot is about 85 and the ambient temp is in the high 70's. He is in no view of any other animals or chams. There is no fan going in the room, and the bulbs wattage is 40.

I really appreciate you responding Brian. It seems to me that it's an "all of a sudden" type of sickness or ordeal. He has been extremely healthy as well as all the other chams. Until today. He hasn't really been basking because he's been so lethargic today. I've seen him drink quite alot, but he always does. My only guess can be impaction or some type of weird sickness. Does impaction come on all of a sudden and result in closing the eyes and lethargy? I've read on the forum about giving chams enemas? Is this a possibility or is this even a practice for this?

 

[ColorCham427]

I am not too sure about impaction issues, never really had any problems.

If I were you I would offer him soft bodied feeders? Does that make sense just in case? Make his next "go time" runny. Hornworms and silkworms tend to make stool very runny, especially hornworms.

Is your room completely dedicated to your chameleons and feeders? You will need to get a fan to circulate air, without a doubt get a fan in there bro.

How often do you spot clean the bottom of his cage? Do you use the 10 % bleach solution... or just water or some other method of cleaning the floor of his cage?


Just a note for the future, definitely gutload with more foods. Look at chameleonsonly.com's cricket food recipe, that list is legit man.


I REEEAAALLLY hope Ziggy isn't going down hill man, he is the next Slash!


edit: How are all your other animals doing? I'm asking this because maybe it's the feeders... Are your crickets kept clean? Crickets are disgusting compared to roaches, and crickets need a whole lot more attention.

Why are you only using calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks if he is being raised indoors? He is only 6-7 months old, that is still young.

 

[Julirs]

I would see how he acts tomorrow. Due to his size I would be feeding daily. Over supplementation could be an issue here. Cut the reptivite to once monthly.