Changing Chameleon Diet- Feedback On Feeders

[AllFallDown]

Hello Everyone,
Fair warning, this is long. I have been feeding my young Veiled a steady diet of mainly (as in around 90%) gutloaded, dusted crickets (calcium everyday- dusted during one meal- two meals a day of about 3 or 4 crickets (which he often leaves some uneatten so I assume this is a good amount, he has been an excellent eater from the start so I assume he is not sick), multivitamin about once a week or once every 2 weeks), I have also (until I ran out about 2 weeks ago) been adding a meal worm or two to his food dish as he eats them (IE no more than 1 or 2 a day, and if he leaves them I do not add more until he does- usually he has been). I have also, as a treat, been giving him a waxworm about once every 2 days or even less frequently than that, never more than one a day.

I have been rethinking his diet a bit and wanted to alter his diet to:

1. Make it more interesting/fun for him. After all, I like spaghetti, but everyday? Blah!
2. To try to balance things out a bit more.

I have been doing a lot of reading, and particularly payed close attention to sandrachameleons blog entry on feeders (very helpful thorough, thank you): https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/74-feeders.html

Here is what I am thinking/have ordered (and am waiting on delivery):

I placed an order for the following:

1. Crickets (which I have some breeders going now...)
2. Silkworms
3. Dubia Roaches
4. Butterworms
5. Phoenix Worms
6. I am also trying to get a culture of Isopods going (Rolly Polies from my back yard- plan to start feeding with F2 generation if he likes them...).

In the future, I hope to get the following as well:

1. Tomato hornworms (by the way, anyone tried feeding Tobacco hornworms to their cham?)
2. Madagascar hissing roaches (only feed when small of course)
3. Stick insects if I can find them
4. Banana roaches (I grow banana trees so I should be able to give them a natural food source)

Here is the plan:

1. Gutloaded/dusted crickets will continue to act as main staple but I will drop down to offering about every 2/3 feedings (IE 2 meals one day, only one the next or something like that)
2. I plan to offer a silkworm or two (depending on size) about once a day- occasionally taking a day or two break to prevent monotony
3. Butterworms and Hornworms will be offered infrequently, for a calcium boost and because of their moisture content. Say, every couple of days
4. Phase out wax worms unless I have some handy, then offer as desert (my cham really likes them)
5. Roaches will be offered roughly one a day or one every 2 days and will rotate through whatever species I happen to have (for now just dubias).
6. Phase out meal worms except as an occasional treat (he does seem to like them, he does not jump down for them like he does wax worms). I will try supers at some point as well but I get a sense I am not missing much.
7. Phoenix worms for a little while. Sandrachameleon seems to suggest that they are only good for young chams. I will follow this suggestion but am curious as to why this is the case and if it is just the grubs that are this way (would this apply to the solder flies as well??).
8. Have a couple of isopods in his snack dish each day incase he wants a snack.

The basic breakdown (for bugs, not plants) I am going for is along the lines of:

• 30-40% of diet - Crickets(Gutloaded, dusted)
• 25% of diet - Silkworms (not dusted)
• 20-25% of diet - Roaches (not dusted)
• 10% of diet - Calcium rich worms(not dusted)
• 0-10% - Other stuff (not dusted, maybe treats, maybe healthy)

I have also been putting together(getting the plants for) an outdoor space for him to bask in the sun for a little while each day. He really seems to like this (I dont think I have ever seen him with as much energy as he had today after his outdoor basking session.) My only concern with this idea is that he is still small enough to be a meal for a fast bird so I either want to convert an old bird aviary we have to a chameleon outdoor space, or figure out some other solution. Naturally, I supervise him (and the turtles) during these outdoor outings.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions you can provide!

 

[sandrachameleon]

wild hornworms are typically toxic, due to what they consume. You may be able to flush their guts sufficiently with non-toxic food (grape vine leaves, shaved red pepper fruit, etc) but Im not sure its worth the risk.
Your plan looks good to me. I applaud your good effort to provide variety.
You can continue with the pheonix worms / soldier fly larva for as long as your cham accepts them. I meant to say that big chameleons sometimes can be bothered with such small prey (I'll adjust my wording in that blog entry!)
I can almost guarantee your cham will enjoy the rollie-pollies. Never heard of one that didnt. There is very little risk in offering him a single wild one, as a test, before you go to the effort though.

you are right to have concern about a bird (or even a sneaky fast cat) catching him when outdoors. An outdoor cage (like a bird cage) is a good idea, for his protection

Does your multivitamin contain vitamin D, or does he get outside enough not to need supplementation?

 

[AllFallDown]

"wild hornworms are typically toxic, due to what they consume. You may be able to flush their guts sufficiently with non-toxic food (grape vine leaves, shaved red pepper fruit, etc) but Im not sure its worth the risk."

- I was thinking of getting some commercially available eggs/cultures and feeding him that. Your caveat is good to know- that likely would not have occured to me(not at first at least).

"Your plan looks good to me. I applaud your good effort to provide variety."

-Thanks, he a good eater but some days he seems less enthusiastic about crickets than others.

"You can continue with the pheonix worms / soldier fly larva for as long as your cham accepts them. I meant to say that big chameleons sometimes can be bothered with such small prey (I'll adjust my wording in that blog entry!)"

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

"I can almost guarantee your cham will enjoy the rollie-pollies. Never heard of one that didnt. There is very little risk in offering him a single wild one, as a test, before you go to the effort though."

Great to know. Either way, having a rollie polie farm will be fun for my daughter.

"you are right to have concern about a bird (or even a sneaky fast cat) catching him when outdoors. An outdoor cage (like a bird cage) is a good idea, for his protection"

- Yeah, our outting was cut short today by a suspicious looking bluejay.

"Does your multivitamin contain vitamin D, or does he get outside enough not to need supplementation? "

- I am currently using zoomed reptivite with D3.

At some point I want to try Miner-all or Repashy

The calcium I am currently using also has D3 in it. I do plant to swap that out for a D3-free calcium suppliment very soon. Also thinking Miner-all or Repashy.

Currently using:

 

[maxttu]

Have you heard of Repashy's Calcium Plus? It's an all-in-one supplement and several owner's (including myself) use this product. It pretty much takes the guess work out of the supplementing schedule and just makes cham owning that much easier. I believe Repashy is a sponsor. Check it out!

 

[AllFallDown]

Have you heard of Repashy's Calcium Plus? It's an all-in-one supplement and several owner's (including myself) use this product. It pretty much takes the guess work out of the supplementing schedule and just makes cham owning that much easier. I believe Repashy is a sponsor. Check it out!

Yes, that is one of the supplements I have been considering switching to(largely based on comments here at CF).

How does it take the guesswork out?

 

[AllFallDown]

wild hornworms are typically toxic, due to what they consume.

Wait, a thought just occured to me. Are they toxic if all they have consumed is tomato plant material?

 

[maxttu]

Yes, that is one of the supplements I have been considering switching to(largely based on comments here at CF).

How does it take the guesswork out?

By not having to give d3 or vitamins every two weeks or once a month. Dust lightly every day or every other day, try to incorporate some natural sunlight and you're done. One bottle, one dusting, one happy cham. I'm sure others will chime in on their usage, but this schedule seems to be the key. This is what I have been doing for months, so please, someone chime in if I'm incorrect and giving false information...

 

[AllFallDown]

By not having to give d3 or vitamins every two weeks or once a month. Dust lightly every day or every other day, try to incorporate some natural sunlight and you're done. One bottle, one dusting, one happy cham. I'm sure others will chime in on their usage, but this schedule seems to be the key. This is what I have been doing for months, so please, someone chime in if I'm incorrect and giving false information...

Oh ok, so I guess they have probably tweeked the ratios of vitamins and minerals around so that they are compatible.

 

[maxttu]

I guess? When I researched this a few months ago, that seemed to be the common opinion. One product. "Set it and forget it"...

 

[sandrachameleon]

Wait, a thought just occured to me. Are they toxic if all they have consumed is tomato plant material?

yes
tomatoes leaves (anything in night shade family) are toxic
fruit isnt

dunno how many tomatoe leaf eating hornworms your cham would have to eat to have a serious result (might be one, might be many)

 

[sandrachameleon]

By not having to give d3 or vitamins every two weeks or once a month. Dust lightly every day or every other day, try to incorporate some natural sunlight and you're done. One bottle, one dusting, one happy cham. I'm sure others will chime in on their usage, but this schedule seems to be the key. This is what I have been doing for months, so please, someone chime in if I'm incorrect and giving false information...

You're not wrong, in that this is common (for keepers of panthers vieldeds and similar). The Repashy product was designed to be in balance and for frequent use on insects like crickets.

I however dont feel that much (near daily) supplement is necessary - if you are offering a variety of feeders and gutload properly. I certainly dont dust prey with supplement every time nor even every other time. Plus some types of prey simply do not need any supplementation. A rollie pollie for example, needs absolutely no supplement. A butterworm, if well gutloaded doesnt either (certainly not with calcium). Supplements IMHO should only be supplementary to a good diet.