Chameleon Dreams???

[quikksilver8]

Hey everyone here is a random question... Do chameleons dream??? I noticed my female sleepind tonight and she was puffing up and then going back to normal and repeated this a couple times. Her eyes were closed the whole time. ANd now she's still fast asleep. I thought it was kinda funny. What do you guys think?

 

[kinyonga]

Here's some information...
"Some REM characteristics have been found in reptiles, including chameleons, desert iguanas and caimans. But the experiments all had problems that have left the question open. Were they in REM or just awake? Does slower heart rate count as atonia? More studies are needed to determine if REM is active in reptiles."
http://www.improverse.com/ed-articles/richard_wilkerson_2003_jan_evolution.htm

"Tauber found "bursts" of REMs lasting 1-3 minutes and 1-7 minutes in sleeping chameleons Chamaeleo jacksoni and Chamaeleo melleri"
http://books.google.com/books?id=r9...&sig=vkqksYdGj-BpF1Jex8LXewTI28M#PRA1-PA24,M1

''There have been reports of eye movement in sleeping chameleons and other reptiles,'' he said, ''but the problem is, if you see behavior in a reptile that looks like REM sleep, it's hard to know whether the animal is really in REM sleep or is merely waking up.''
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...935A25751C1A961958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=3

 

[bucky]

LOL! mine does the same thing,its kinda like hes yawning,but he aint i guess. Also he gets some very cool colors during the night that i dont see during the day,could he be having a very good dream?

 

[chameloman72]

Hey everyone here is a random question... Do chameleons dream??? I noticed my female sleepind tonight and she was puffing up and then going back to normal and repeated this a couple times. Her eyes were closed the whole time. ANd now she's still fast asleep. I thought it was kinda funny. What do you guys think?

I may be WAY out in left field here, but I know when mine do that in their sleep it sometimes turns out to be a URI!! If you can open her mouth and look in the back of her throat and see bubbles this means URI!! Chameleons are masters of hiding their symptoms during the day and I usually catch a URI while their sleeping!!

 

[bucky]

This may sound stupid,whats a URI?

 

[Dyesub Dave]

Yeah ... I was wondering that too??

Dyesub Dave.

 

[ChromaChameleons]

URI = upper respiratory infection

 

[bucky]

ooooooooooooo,are there any other signs?

 

[Dyesub Dave]

AH ... I was guessing <something> Retinal Infection but couldn't figure out what the 'U' stood for!! LOL

Dyesub Dave.

 

[angus310]

my cham appears to be perfectly happy and healthy and I believe he dreams sometimes. One morning he didn't wake up after I put the lights on, so I was a little confused b/c he usually runs right to the top to start the day. So, I went searching for him and found him nestled on his plant in the very back middle of the cage. The only thing different is that he wasn't in his usual sleeping colors. Rather he was completely fired up. Eyes closed not moving. I tried to pet his tail, shook the tree gently and still no movement at all. At this point, I thought he was dead but I figured he probably would have fallen if he was. An hour later he comes up to the top looking for some food. He was in such a sound sleep that no matter what I did, he was not moving. His colors indicated some kind of stress, so I was thinking maybe it was a dream. At least I am not the only one who believes they may have dreams.

 

[Dyesub Dave]

It seems to me that anything with a brain could likely have some sort of dreaming ability. We've all seen cats & dogs twich in their sleep while dreaming. Their dreams may not be as complex as ours but I'd think that they could have dreams of seeing a mate or getting away from a predator ... etc.

Actually I wonder how complex their little brains are? I sometimes have a hard time functioning with two eyes looking in the same direction. ( Especially after a few beers! ) So I can't even imagine trying to comprehend images from two different directions at the same time!!

Dyesub Dave.

 

[bucky]

Ya,mine was really fired up last night,could it be that it was because it was around 65 degrees? Its gettin really cold here,i kept one of his baskin lights on and the humidifier on.

 

[Dyesub Dave]

You can also get the night heat bulbs as well. I've got a purple 50 watt on my oldest chams enclosure. It just gives off a bit of heat in case the temp gets a little too low!

Dyesub Dave.

 

[bucky]

mmk,how light are these?

 

[Dyesub Dave]

If you're referring to brightness ... not very. The one that I have is a little less than a regular black light.

Dyesub Dave.



The one I have is the 50W: http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/night_glo.php

There are varying wattages and also red night heat bulbs as well.

 

[quikksilver8]

I agree with Dyesub Dave I do think it should be possible for anything with a brain to dream. All a dream is is thoughts or emotions running through your head while you sleep. And I'm pretty sure my cham doesn't have a uri. She is an aggressive eater and always active. I checked for those bubbles and saw nothing. I'm convinced it was a dream

 

[Brad Ramsey]

hmmmmm.
This is one of the many questions that will remain in the arena of speculation (at least for now).
I do have to say on another note that night time temperature drops are not only okay....they are required!
60 to 65 degrees is ideal for night time.
So many people think that because these animals are "tropical" they need to be kept super warm all the time.
Because they are cold-blooded, however, cooler temps slow down their metabolism and heartrate, which is what you want during sleep. In other words, they may not sleep well if kept too warm at night.

-Brad

 

[Dyesub Dave]

Well that is definitely true of veileds from all that I've read. They can handle a wide range of temps! However I would think that the nighttime temperature where they're from isn't always the same either ... as it is here. Some nights may drop down about 10 degrees and some may not cool off at all. Sometimes here it acutally warms up at night. So I would think that most chams can handle a range of temps as long as they are not extreme in either direction.

I'm not an expert by any means it just seems to make sense. Perhaps where some of these chams are from the temps are very consitent. But it certainly makes sense that a temperature drop would slow down their metabolism and help them to sleep. But I would think that just turning off their basking lights at night would provide a sufficient temperature drop.

And I'm sure that every chameleon species has slightly different preferences. My only experience is with Veileds so far.

Dyesub Dave.

 

[Sara270]

Finally, a nice topic for a thread that I can comment on! I specialize in sleep research in humans.

I cannot really comment on the basic research and reptile sleep, but in humans dreaming it is thought to occur mainly in REM sleep. REM sleep latency or the first occurrence of REM is usually about 90 minutes after sleep onset and possibly shorter in those who are depressed. There are basically five cycles a person goes through throughout the night (lasting ~90 minutes each) and the amount of REM sleep increases with each cycle, such that by early morning hours a person is spending more time in REM. Thus, more dreaming is likely to occur in the early morning hours.

Researchers and clinicians can determine REM sleep by muscle atonia (measured by EMG in chin), rapid eye movements, and changes in EEG activity (such as saw tooth waves). There is sometimes a misconception that this is a deep stage of sleep, but it is actually considered paradoxical sleep because it resembles the lighter stages of sleep.

Anyway, I love to ramble about sleep. The topic of chameleon sleep and dreaming is really interesting!

 

[Sara270]

hmmmmm.
This is one of the many questions that will remain in the arena of speculation (at least for now).
I do have to say on another note that night time temperature drops are not only okay....they are required!
60 to 65 degrees is ideal for night time.
So many people think that because these animals are "tropical" they need to be kept super warm all the time.
Because they are cold-blooded, however, cooler temps slow down their metabolism and heartrate, which is what you want during sleep. In other words, they may not sleep well if kept too warm at night.

-Brad

Oh, in addition, humans have many things that run on circadian rhythm. Core body temperature is actually has rhythms and at night temperature drops in humans and this is a cue for sleep, in addition to melatonin. In the morning, temperature will rise and melatonin shuts off with light. It makes sense that animals that are so photosensitive probably rely on these cues to help sleep (i.e., dark and cold at night to promote sleep and light and warm in day to promote wake). Being cold blooded, they probably rely on external envoirnment more.