Canadian Economy Pricing

Right now in Canada, since the economy has been spinning downward, the going rate for a Panther is $175-200 and I've seen people selling 2 for $350. What a drastic change in price. Unfortunatley, that price will never get higher in Canada now that it'll become the standard. It'll only go lower. Looks like the US breeders may take a large hit as well. When people start buying at $200 and lower, there is no way they'll pay $275-$300+ again.

What a bummer for those people who have invested largely into the Panther projects.
 

ciafardo 4

New Member
i dont believe that .People will still pay top dollar for specific blood lines from top breeders there prices really havnt changed most of these low prices are from hobbiest breeders with no overhead .
 

ChromaChameleons

New Member
I saw those very same $200 panthers at the last expo. Just a few tables over from me. They had 3 bins of them and only sold 2 panthers throughout the whole show. The vendor admittedly told me , some of the babies were missing feet and tails. And now, I see them on the net for $200.

At $300, I sold 9 Panthers with no problem. I still haven't heard from a single disgruntled customer. As for the christmas season , I'm almost sold out . Its been a good year , and I expect next year to be better.

AT $200, you're welcome to them; I'll stick to selling my $300 Panthers , thank you very much.

You get what you pay for...
 
As much as I'd like to agree with you Harry, I can not. There is no way people will continue to pay $300+ for Panthers here in Canada when they can get the exact same thing for $175-$200. It's the way it is. Best of luck selling them at $300+ though. All the power to you if you do.
 
I agree, and I'd much rather pay a high quality breeder top dollar then go to pet store where you'll more then likely pay more anyways for an inferior quality animal.
A long time Canadian breeder (no name mentioned) is selling for $175 and isn't a pet store. Sure, they aren't Ambilobe but they are still furcifer pardalis nonetheless. Other breeders in Canada are also selling at $200 each. To them, $200 each is better then selling wholesale for $50-$75 each that they normally get.

I totally support the higher pricing with Panthers but I see it in trouble here in Canada. We'll see $150-$200 Panthers all over the place.
 

eisentrauti

Avid Member
Hi,

I bet with you that all of your pardalis prices will be under 150$ in the next two years. The reasons are very simple: They are very very easy to breed and they have giant clutches (in comparison to nearly every other species).
Some days ago I saw an add at an german webside where somebody offers 10 cb nosy be's for 400€ (round 510$)!

Greets
Benny
 

chequepoint

New Member
Its happening all over the reptile trade. Market Crashers have just ripped the bottom out of the market. Any discussion of it seems to end in chaos with consumers screaming price fixing, as they don't care as long as they're spending less... and the people who are doing the market crashing get defensive, because they're doing anything they can for the fast buck.

The simple truth is, as a legitimate, $300 animal, the animals are better cared for and held to a much higher quality level. BUT when these market crashers rip the bottom out, even the best intentioned breeders well be forced to drop their prices, and compromise quality.

In addition, people will treat them worse and worse as pets as they approach the disposable price.

I've had people argue with me that this isn't the case with veilds, but I think it very obviously is. When asked what the best cham to start with on this forum, they are almost universally recommended over panthers, not because they're easier to care for.. but because they're cheap enough that when they kill it the first time they won't feel so bad. Every pet store I know treats their panthers significantly better than their veilds, and often the veileds at far too young of an age, because they are essentially disposable.

The crazy part is, these people crashing the market are most likely losing money, they just don't see it. I often hear the argument that selling animals you've bred is 100% profit, and the high prices are just greed by other breeders. I barely see at $300 how small scale breeders are making profit, just based on expenses. If you add in time.. its almost always a total loss.

Forcing the price up is near impossible, once someone's friend bought a panther for $99, nobody is going to want to pay more than that. Game over.
 

eisentrauti

Avid Member
What about your prices for WC chameleons in the US ? I think they are a very bad joke!
Nearly every montane species, they are all not easy to keep, are thrown on the market for prices wide under 100$
Because they are so cheap I also bet that 90% of them don't live longer than one year, that's a shame!
Why should panthers cost 300$ and more and all the other species are sold like they don't have any value :(:confused:
 

THECHAMMAN

Established Member
probably because of the flashy colors. people think the chams with beautiful colors are better than the less colorful ones. cham discrimination.
 
I don't know about that. I think that it's the 'fly by night herpers' that are driving down the prices for a quick buck. When they run out of babies, consumers will have no choice but to pay the $300 for a Panther from the solid breeders. Market crashes are everywhere right now, reptiles or not. But, I do believe that $200 won't be the norm for Panther prices. When the reputable Canadian breeders stick to their $300 for a baby, that's what the actual market price is. People pay for quality.

I'm familiar with the adds you're talking about Derrik, and I also know that for the most part, these people aren't responsible breeders, they won't be around forever. Patience and persistance will pay off with it though. The people that hold strong during the 'attempted price crash' are the people that will come through victorious in the end.

On the same note, Panthers, as well as other Chams, are bred in much larger numbers here in Canada than they were five years ago. Of course the price is bound to come down a bit. But so what if it does? I work with what I enjoy, even if the market drops Panthers down to $100 (which it won't), I'll still keep them, possibly breed them if there's enough demand for them still, becuase I enjoy them!! The money is not an issue for me. As long as the cost of their food is covered, who cares. For me, it's a hobby, not a buisness.

If you want to take a look at a crashing reptile market, take a look at Leopard Geckos and Ball Pythons. There's an issue. Chams isn't really an issue yet. They're much harder to produce than alot of geckos, snakes and what have you. Therefore, the price will always be higher.
 

addicted

New Member
I work with what I enjoy, even if the market drops Panthers down to $100 (which it won't), I'll still keep them, possibly breed them if there's enough demand for them still, becuase I enjoy them!! The money is not an issue for me. As long as the cost of their food is covered, who cares. For me, it's a hobby, not a buisness.
If only every hobbiest and/or breeder had this attitude towards their animals, I agree with you 100%
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
its not like $100 panthers havent been seen before. People are still paying over $250 this end of Canada without raising an eyebrow. Like Harry said, you get what you pay for.
 

FOREVER ENDEAVOR

New Member
I don't know about that. I think that it's the 'fly by night herpers' that are driving down the prices for a quick buck. When they run out of babies, consumers will have no choice but to pay the $300 for a Panther from the solid breeders. Market crashes are everywhere right now, reptiles or not. But, I do believe that $200 won't be the norm for Panther prices. When the reputable Canadian breeders stick to their $300 for a baby, that's what the actual market price is. People pay for quality.

I'm familiar with the adds you're talking about Derrik, and I also know that for the most part, these people aren't responsible breeders, they won't be around forever. Patience and persistance will pay off with it though. The people that hold strong during the 'attempted price crash' are the people that will come through victorious in the end.

On the same note, Panthers, as well as other Chams, are bred in much larger numbers here in Canada than they were five years ago. Of course the price is bound to come down a bit. But so what if it does? I work with what I enjoy, even if the market drops Panthers down to $100 (which it won't), I'll still keep them, possibly breed them if there's enough demand for them still, becuase I enjoy them!! The money is not an issue for me. As long as the cost of their food is covered, who cares. For me, it's a hobby, not a buisness.

If you want to take a look at a crashing reptile market, take a look at Leopard Geckos and Ball Pythons. There's an issue. Chams isn't really an issue yet. They're much harder to produce than alot of geckos, snakes and what have you. Therefore, the price will always be higher.


Well put,..Its nice to hear that some breeders are in it for the love/fascination of the hobby and not just the almighty dollar..I wouldn't be threatened by "price crashing fly by nighters"... Everyone knows you get what you pay for..I'm seeing a lot of low priced panthers pop up all over here in the states as well..
 

Trace

Captain Awesome
My opinions (distaste?) on overpriced, ubiquitous, inbred pardalis are well documented on this site alone... I wholeheartedly agree with Eisentrauti on this one.

If everyone was in it for the love and fascination of chameleons, then why is everyone worried about falling prices on their "so-called" investment grade Panthers?

Can anyone tell me a valid reason why F. pardalis are worth $300? $475? $600!?!

Trace
 

FOREVER ENDEAVOR

New Member
My opinions (distaste?) on overpriced, ubiquitous, inbred pardalis are well documented on this site alone... I wholeheartedly agree with Eisentrauti on this one.

If everyone was in it for the love and fascination of chameleons, then why is everyone worried about falling prices on their "so-called" investment grade Panthers?

Can anyone tell me a valid reason why F. pardalis are worth $300? $475? $600!?!

Trace

cost of husbandry,price paid for breeders,price of importation, gas, .... i agree somewhat with what your getting at but,.. its just the going/standard rate at this point in time...

"If everyone was in it for the love and fascination of chameleons, then why is everyone worried about falling prices on their "so-called" investment grade Panthers?"

hhhmmmmm, that sounds like a direct hit?.....real mature
 

Chameleon Nation

New Member
Economy

Well, with thousands upon thousands of people losing their jobs up here due to the automotive industry falling. A lot of factories are closing their doors and going to Mexico. Mexican laborers get paid about $100 a week, some don't even get that. Both Canada and the U.S. can't compete with that. So with many losing their jobs and now everyone and their mother is trying to breed panthers or any chameleon. It will be interesting to see what the future has in store.
 
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