Call me ignorant, but what is wrong with cross-breeding?

[Pashka]

Hello everyone.

This is I think my third thread on this awesome message board.

Recently, as I have been reading through numerous threads, I have noticed people saying that cross-breeding locales of Chameleons is wrong or breeders saying that they would not do it. As of now I do have knowledge of chameleons, I bought a 1/2 Ambilobe 1/2 Nosy Be Panther from Kammerflage Kreations at the Anaheim convention, NARBC(Awesome people, really helpful), however my knowledge is still limited. Leonardo, my chameleon is doing very well, is active, hydrated, and growing exponentially. Anyway, what is wrong with cross-breeding? I am curious. I ask for a few reasons, curiosity, I saw a panther at the Anaheim show that was made up of 4 species, and my chameleon is a cross-breed.

If anyone could please answer my question, I'd be grateful.

Thank you very much!

 

[Vibrant Chameleons]

Hello everyone.

This is I think my third thread on this awesome message board.

Recently, as I have been reading through numerous threads, I have noticed people saying that cross-breeding locales of Chameleons is wrong or breeders saying that they would not do it. As of now I do have knowledge of chameleons, I bought a 1/2 Ambilobe 1/2 Nosy Be Panther from Kammerflage Kreations at the Anaheim convention, NARBC(Awesome people, really helpful), however my knowledge is still limited. Leonardo, my chameleon is doing very well, is active, hydrated, and growing exponentially. Anyway, what is wrong with cross-breeding? I am curious. I ask for a few reasons, curiosity, I saw a panther at the Anaheim show that was made up of 4 species, and my chameleon is a cross-breed.

If anyone could please answer my question, I'd be grateful.

Thank you very much!

It's the simple fact that those cross breeds could potentially be mistaken as a purebred and mess up a whole lot of bloodlines. I think the cross breeds shouldn't be sold and just used rather as personal enjoyment as pets. That's just my opinion, everyone has their own opinion on this.

 

[booshified]

the reason why people dont like it is the same reason you dont wanna cross breed two pure bred dogs. what do you get when you cross a dalmation and pug? a mutt.

cross breeding just means that there are less of the pure breds out there

 

[Kent67]

Nothing, as long as sellers/breeders don't market them as something they're not. The decision to cross-breed locales is a personal one. Some are purists, some want to see what crossing will result in.

 

[booshified]

yeah... i guess that's the biggest worry of cross breeding. is that it could contaminate the bloodlines.

 

[Pashka]

Thank you very much.

You satisfied my curiosity

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy,

Many beautiful and healthy Panthers come from cross-locale breeding. There are keepers/breeders that are concerned about keeping the bloodlines separate to protect them. Think of the efforts that people go to with the bloodlines of cats and dogs. There are arguments on both sides; some well-founded, some not. It's a personal choice as much as anything. I'm sure that your Panther will be happy and healthy, crossed or otherwise . So long as these animals are represented as what they are, people will be able to make informed decisions and not inadvertently cross a locale when they breed them.

 

[booshified]

nothing is wrong with a cross breed. i think the problem is when this cross breed is cross bred again and again. you end up with mutts.

technically this isnt bad as long as these mutts arent contaminating the pure bloodlines(some mutts may look alot like pure breeds)

 

[Kent67]

Speaking of crossing locales....

Yemen and Saudi are both rather "closed" countries so little is known about calyptratus locales. That species has been inbred and had locales cross-bred for what, 13-14 years in US collections? With rare, infrequent shipments of wild caughts added in. That species has been selectively bred for turquoise, sunburst, etc. and people love it. Why would it be wrong to selectively breed locales of pardalis (or any other species for that matter) when it's not wrong to do it with calyptratus, dogs, cats, cattle, flightless fruitflies....???

 

[Brad Ramsey]

"mutts" can often end up being healthier animals.
There is nothing wrong with it ....aside from the above mentioned "pure" bloodlines being tampered with.
Mixed up gene pools are (in my opinion) a good thing for the continued health of a species.
Incidentally, most pure breeds of dogs were created by us...by cross breeding.

-Brad

 

[ChameleonsTree]

Its something i dont choose to do because you never know how many clutches you get from one visit to the males cage. Sometimes you can get many clutches from one insemination.

 

[Calavera]

Just like dogs, cross-breeding (to some) compromises the integrity of the specimen. This doesn't mean that "mut" chameleons are any less healthy, they are just mixed. Many breeders are simply concerned with producing offspring that posses the "integrity" of their specific location.

-Cala-

 

[Steven Reecy]

Hello everyone.

This is I think my third thread on this awesome message board.

Recently, as I have been reading through numerous threads, I have noticed people saying that cross-breeding locales of Chameleons is wrong or breeders saying that they would not do it. As of now I do have knowledge of chameleons, I bought a 1/2 Ambilobe 1/2 Nosy Be Panther from Kammerflage Kreations at the Anaheim convention, NARBC(Awesome people, really helpful), however my knowledge is still limited. Leonardo, my chameleon is doing very well, is active, hydrated, and growing exponentially. Anyway, what is wrong with cross-breeding? I am curious. I ask for a few reasons, curiosity, I saw a panther at the Anaheim show that was made up of 4 species, and my chameleon is a cross-breed.

If anyone could please answer my question, I'd be grateful.

Thank you very much!

The problem comes in when cross bred animals enter the marketplace as pure. If you want pure panthers, you have to prove your line over generations. It can set you back quite a bit if someone knowingly, or unknowingly sells you one. There was a time when the chameleon community was EXTREMELY against it, but thats obviously faded over time.

I don't have anything against the chameleons themselves. First generation animals can be pretty, though I believe that if they are re-bred, the mixed genetic signals start to create less attractive chams with successive generations. Perhaps, as someone pointed out, their genes are codominant, and the more they get mixed, the more plain they look. If I purchased a cross-bred animal, I would not mate it with another panther because I couldn't keep all of the offspring, and when 30 or so of them hit the marketplace, some will be sold as pure.

Steve

 

[Jeweledchameleons]

Here's the situation as I see it.
Crossing locals is the wrong thing to do.
I believe i can make a good case for it too
it's not about personal preferences because both sides are 50/50.
it boils down to putting one thing before the other FIRST.

Domestically, there's only one chance to create a arch type
that is "clean" from each local.
That time is, and can only happen now.
Panthers have only been able to be bred and kept for the last few years.
Each local should be developed to strongly showing their different traits,
attractiveness to the eye AND be consistent with it's f1,f2...f6 etc.

Accomplish that, and controlled crossings can then be carried out
with much greater effect. (It's a one way equation).

Once the domestic lines are polluted by the careless individual or breeder(s)
they can't be untangled, even if the animal looks clean -it's not,
wild negative stuff will constantly pop up in the offspring even from good looking parents
you won't be able to judge what your buying based upon the parents.
that would be a disaster for both the breeder and buyer.

Worse, It'll create a feedback loop of dirtying the species as careless breeders
lose the distinction between geographic lines and "Mutts will the the standard".
and good looking animals that are distinctive will be rarer and rarer.

Wild crossings can always be carried out later using imported stock
or clean domestic lines in the attempt to create a desired product.
All of that type of breeding can be done at a later time without any penalty.
(you can't say that about having things work in the opposite direction).

It's like baking a cake without starting with clean ingredients.
try baking a really nice cake when:
All the flour is contaminated with baking soda and yeast
The brown sugar is mixed with salt, chocolate powder and yogurt
and the frosting is... well.. we don't know, -we think it might be bacon.

All because someone thought it would be fun to premix stuff together
and you're stuck with their mucked up crap that'll be useless.

It's impossible to bake anything top notch if all your materials
were contaminated like that?

That is what wild crossing will present people with
unless clean & established lines aren't first developed by the community.

(/rant)