Butter worms

waterpolowes

New Member
I ordered some butter worms the other day for my little guy.

How often should I offer him these over crickets during the week?
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
in my opinion, Butterworms are great but they shouldnt make up more than 20% of the chameleons diet. Try also to keep the total of all larva (butters+supers+silks etc) to less than 50%.
 

ruru

New Member
in my opinion, Butterworms are great but they shouldnt make up more than 20% of the chameleons diet. Try also to keep the total of all larva (butters+supers+silks etc) to less than 50%.
not that im questioning your knowledge in any way shape of form, but why keep them such a low percentage of the cham diet? like i said im not doubting you in any way i just want a better understanding of why.. ie. mealworms/hard exoskeleton(chitin) hard to digest. something like that?
 

Loz

New Member
Though butterworms are high in calcium, they are also high in fat - So they should be offered every now and then and not used as a staple.

The website below has details of the nutritional value of butter worms (sorry my PC won't add a link for some reason).

www.nyworms.com/trevoworms

Hope that helps.
 

warpdrive

Avid Member
oh ok so like only 2 or so every other meal?
I'm realy not a fan of using only two types of feeders for my chameleons.
but in the meantime, yes, that sounds best.

try to add some more types of feeders to your menu.
silk worms, horn worms, superworms, and dubias, make perfect feeders to add to your menu of items for our pets to do well.

Harry
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
not that im questioning your knowledge in any way shape of form, but why keep them such a low percentage of the cham diet?
Feel free to question my opinions anytime. Im not perfect and by asking we both learn from all the responses.

I believe variety is very important. So I personally try not to let any one feeder make up more than 20% of my chameleons diet. I try to offer no fewer than 8 choices of prey in any month, and sometimes I'm able to offer as many as 14 different types of bugs. It is my belief that this variety contributes to the health and longevity of my animals.

Butterworms are less "fatty" than many other larva, and do have a higher percentage of calcium, however they can not be well gutloaded. Therefore keeping the amount of these used to a moderate level is, IMHO, a good way to go. A couple a week seems reasonable, though it depends on what else the cham is eating, the size and type of chameleon, its age, etc.
 

radstusky

Avid Member
Butterworms are less "fatty" than many other larva, and do have a higher percentage of calcium, however they cannot be well gutloaded.
I just got some butterworms for the first time, and the first thing I notice is that they are kind of small, especially for my panther. It would be nice to find something to feed them not only to increase their nutritional value, but also to make them a more substantial meal. So I can't feed them anything?
 

Theirin

New Member
My little guy just seems to ignore them completely haha! I got like 20 to use over these next few weeks and he wont touch them! XD
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
I just got some butterworms for the first time, and the first thing I notice is that they are kind of small, especially for my panther. It would be nice to find something to feed them not only to increase their nutritional value, but also to make them a more substantial meal. So I can't feed them anything?
Find another supplier. The ones I get are a good size and fat - bigger than an adult cricket.
I dont think there is much you can feed to a butterworm.

Other feeder choices, which you can gutload, are silkworms, roaches, terrestrial isopods, ....
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
My little guy just seems to ignore them completely haha! I got like 20 to use over these next few weeks and he wont touch them! XD
Are they active? If you got half-dead ones, that dont move much, you may have to be creative in how you offer them. I find letting them crawl up a vine or along a branch is effective. Also if you already cup feed, anything that goes in the cup should be see as potential food.
 

Theirin

New Member
Are they active? If you got half-dead ones, that dont move much, you may have to be creative in how you offer them. I find letting them crawl up a vine or along a branch is effective. Also if you already cup feed, anything that goes in the cup should be see as potential food.
I'm working to cup feed, any tips on helping to train him into cup feeding as he is still young. I've only had him for about a month. The worms seem to be pretty active, I would put them on vines and things to climb, but they seem to climb right off, and I also attempted to hand feed, and they usually try to wriggle right out of my hand. So I think the issue is he doesnt see them as food, because when I hand feed cricks he snatches them right up! I have been doing half hand feed/free range and half cup feeding is this a good way to train or do you have better Ideas?
 

radstusky

Avid Member
Find another supplier. The ones I get are a good size and fat - bigger than an adult cricket.
I dont think there is much you can feed to a butterworm.
My butters seem to be eating butternut squash. I bought some squash a few weeks ago after you posted about this. See how I listen to you Sandra? :)
It looks like you can be wrong after all however! :D I also found a website that says you can put them in bran and feed them carrot, sweet potato or yam (http://www.wormman.com/cat_butterworms.cfm). Keeping them dry is important too. I am keeping mine in my silkworm container at the moment and they're nibbling on the squash. Of course I don't know if it'll be possible to grow them up bigger, but we'll see.

As far as feeding them out, I've been cup feeding mine.
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm working to cup feed, any tips on helping to train him into cup feeding as he is still young. I've only had him for about a month. The worms seem to be pretty active, I would put them on vines and things to climb, but they seem to climb right off, and I also attempted to hand feed, and they usually try to wriggle right out of my hand. So I think the issue is he doesnt see them as food, because when I hand feed cricks he snatches them right up! I have been doing half hand feed/free range and half cup feeding is this a good way to train or do you have better Ideas?
Im sure you've tried putting a single cricket (or something he does eat) in the cup along with a butterworm, to try to make an association. If he eats other larva, like mealworms or supers or silks, those might be more helpful in this regard.

What colour is the cup? Perhaps a darker coloured bowl, so the butterworm stands out more?

Perhaps the butters seem too big to the chameleon?

I've heard of people waiting till the chameleon is chewing some big mouthful of something it caught, then slipping a new/different feeder into his mouth while he chews. And that this caused the chameleon to be more interested in the new food. Have never tried this myself and it seems a bit strange, but maybe worth a try.

Perhaps your chameleon hasnt been exposed to many different types of food, and will just take longer to learn that crickets are the only thing to eat! I know my babies eat a wide assortment of prey from their first month, as is more natural and healthy. But I also know some breeders use crickets almost exclusively, because they are cheap to buy. And it seems that those fed almost exclusively on crickets when young have a much harder time adjusting to new foods. Dont give up though!

How old is your chameleon?
 

Theirin

New Member
Im sure you've tried putting a single cricket (or something he does eat) in the cup along with a butterworm, to try to make an association. If he eats other larva, like mealworms or supers or silks, those might be more helpful in this regard.

What colour is the cup? Perhaps a darker coloured bowl, so the butterworm stands out more?

Perhaps the butters seem too big to the chameleon?

I've heard of people waiting till the chameleon is chewing some big mouthful of something it caught, then slipping a new/different feeder into his mouth while he chews. And that this caused the chameleon to be more interested in the new food. Have never tried this myself and it seems a bit strange, but maybe worth a try.

Perhaps your chameleon hasnt been exposed to many different types of food, and will just take longer to learn that crickets are the only thing to eat! I know my babies eat a wide assortment of prey from their first month, as is more natural and healthy. But I also know some breeders use crickets almost exclusively, because they are cheap to buy. And it seems that those fed almost exclusively on crickets when young have a much harder time adjusting to new foods. Dont give up though!

How old is your chameleon?

He is 4 months, and I believe Screameleons fed him cricks and flies, but I am really not completely certain in that matter. Trying to sneak one in his mouth is not all that much of an option because he tends to snatch a cricket and leave it in his mouth for a min or so and then munch it up, and he doesnt appreciate me getting all that close whilst he is eating. Butterworms were the first worm that I got for him as they have the most nutritional value. I will keep showing him the worms every now and then, I even tried waiting a day to feed him, but he showed no interest. Any ideas as to what I should use a cup, that could be my issue as I have yet to see him eat anything out of the one I am using now.
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
For best results, try a dark coloured opaque bowl, like a brown/green cereal bowl. Nothing transparent or white or shiny metal.
Keep the butterworm cool and they'll last quite awhile (months). Try a really small mealworm (they're only bad in quantity) to see if that's more appealing as his first larva/worm.
 

Theirin

New Member
For best results, try a dark coloured opaque bowl, like a brown/green cereal bowl. Nothing transparent or white or shiny metal.
Keep the butterworm cool and they'll last quite awhile (months). Try a really small mealworm (they're only bad in quantity) to see if that's more appealing as his first larva/worm.
Alright sounds good. I will try to find something to use, and a small worm. Do you know the best way to "train" him into a feeding cup?
 

JoeG

New Member
I started to feed butterworms to my 6 month old Jackson's & he crapped it back out whole. Seemed like he couldn't digest the outer skin. Couldn't expell it either, I had to pull it out with a tweezer , I think they were too big so I am going to try smaller worms......
 
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