Burnt Yemen

langers2004

New Member
Hi,

I have been asking some questions on rfuk and i just wanted to get further advice from here.

I have had my cham for a few months now and hes been fine until recently. He started closing one eye and being quite lathargic. I have given him extra attention and cleaned his eye and he seems to be much better now. His eyes have been open and he is moving around his cage again rather than just chilling out.

However i put some pics up on the net and his back looks burnt!? So i have been advised to go to a vet. Just asking on here to double check this and to see if there are good vets near me.

He has always been a very dark looking cham some here are some pics in age order.

First got him




How he is now
 

Miss Lily

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hi there and welcome to CF! Yes, it's me again,lol! Glad you found this forum too! I know you say that he is always dark, but chams' adult colours don't start to come through until they get to about 6 months old. However, you may get more help and insight from this fourum - there are chameleon lovers from all over the world on here!
 

VeiledChams

Avid Member
Hey and welcome to the forum.

please fill the following out so we get a better idea of your husbandry to better tell you what can be done for your chameleon.


Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
 
I'd be curious to know what your lighting is... Could be a UV burn... or thermal burn... OR skin infection. either way I would get some siladine (spelling?) from our vet.
 

ferretinmyshoes

Veterinarian
Staff member
Could be a burn, bacterial infection or fungal infection. Definitely not normal and not just a color variation. Time to go to the vet! With that large of an area affected it could get out of hand very quickly if it progresses. Please fill out the husbandry survey posted above so we can give you some insight as to how to prevent it from happening again and make an appointment with a vet.
 

langers2004

New Member
Hey and welcome to the forum.

please fill the following out so we get a better idea of your husbandry to better tell you what can be done for your chameleon.


Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

He is around 6-7 months old and i have had him for 2-3 months now.
I handle him nearly every day for a few minutes or let him come and sit on the sofa with me.
I feed him twice a day. He gets around 6 crickets in the morning and the same in the evening. Or one meal of locusts. I drop these in the cage and he hunnts for them. I am gut loading using bran and potato.
I use a vet brand nutrient and normal calcium powder. I dust both feeds each day and once a week dust both feeds with the nutrient. I drop a knife edge into the powder and shake it up with the food.

I have set up a home made dripper and i also spray the cage a couple of times a day heavily. I have seen him drink before yes.

They are solid brown with a runnier white part. None look too dry.

He was bought from a shop as a baby. Bluelizzard reptiles.

The cage is a flex around 50cm wide and over a metre tall. He has lots of plastic plants and vines etc in there.
I use a mvb and it is a lucky reptile or similar big brand. It gets turned on at around 9 then turned off at around the same at night.

The temps at night drop to around 20. Temp in the day is around 34c near the top of the cage.

The flex is around 50cm from the room floor. The humidity levels are just maintained by heavy misting as its a flex. The cage is sat on a desk in the small box room of my house. Its not too noisy or anything like that. He is near a window but not directly in front of it.

I am located in Coventry uk.
 

matthewpstyles

New Member
is the chameleon always that colour? my veiled literally goes black on one side of her back just like that when she feels uncomfortable or when she is conserving heat... so it may well not be a burn, it may be a natural pigmentation... but do go and get it checked out.

to me, it doesnt look like a fungal infection. youd know if it were, as you would see fluffy lumps, only very small, but noticable. bacterial infections often result in sores and open wounds, so again this might not be the case.



@ferretinmyshoes
dont think there is any reason to cause panic btw. having been involved acadmically with many animals of various species, there is often a logical explanation. panic may lead to irrational options and the animal may not recieve the best treatment/ help.

so yea, have it checked out and perhaps review where your lighting and heating systems are if it turns out to be a burn!
 

matthewpstyles

New Member
also, certain burns often cause sores and open wounds after a few days, with blistering. it works exactly the same as human skin (even though there are many more layers). UV burns may cause black patches, but soon after the skin begins to peel and blister. essentially, youll know soon know if it is a type of burn by the way that the skin reacts. check out this website:

http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/health-chapter-f-burn.html

it contradicts my point about it being just a natural pigmentation. have a look at the UVB burn section. it may shed some light. so yea, have a look at boths opinions and see what you think.
 

ferretinmyshoes

Veterinarian
Staff member
is the chameleon always that colour? my veiled literally goes black on one side of her back just like that when she feels uncomfortable or when she is conserving heat... so it may well not be a burn, it may be a natural pigmentation... but do go and get it checked out.

to me, it doesnt look like a fungal infection. youd know if it were, as you would see fluffy lumps, only very small, but noticable. bacterial infections often result in sores and open wounds, so again this might not be the case.



@ferretinmyshoes
dont think there is any reason to cause panic btw. having been involved acadmically with many animals of various species, there is often a logical explanation. panic may lead to irrational options and the animal may not recieve the best treatment/ help.

so yea, have it checked out and perhaps review where your lighting and heating systems are if it turns out to be a burn!
I'm in vet school with a focus on reptiles and have worked in vet clinics for a long time and with wildlife rescue as well, so I have probably been more involved with animal health problems in this case, just so you know. In this case I don't believe that your recommendations are very representative of reptile presentations of bacterial or fungal infections in general. And burns do not look the same as they do in mammals. I did not mean to cause panic, merely emphasize that this does not look normal and have seen reptiles decline very rapidly if left untreated. In this case I am concerned that the logical explanation is that this is not a normal color change. I did not advise any irrational options, in fact quite the opposite. Taking this animal to a health professional will be able to rule out more significant health problems if in fact one is not present. But in all truth, merely looking at one picture posted on the Internet is not enough to make a diagnosis either way. My opinion is better safe than sorry and i hope that it is nothing to be worried about, but in the case that is, catching it early makes all the difference in the world, especially in reptiles. Trust me on that one. I do not have all the answers by far, but I do think this animal should be seen by someone qualified to make further decisions instead of blowing it off as color change. The margins of is lesion do not look like localized color change that I have observed.
 
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matthewpstyles

New Member
i am not going to get into a point scoring thing, nor am i going to quote where i used to study, currently study, or the research im involved in currently....

in terms of what i have said being representative of reptiles, it is a broad summary based on nearly 50 years of scientific publication.

i completely agree with the better safe than sorry point, and if you look, i have provided more than one opinion as to what could be the case. i have not said i am correct, as i am not able to physically examine the animal, and diagnosis cannot often be made through the picture.

@ferretinmyshoes
i did not mean to cause offense, i hope it wasnt taken that way, and i do not doubt that you are widely knowledgeable in the subject.
 

ferretinmyshoes

Veterinarian
Staff member
It doesn't even matter who has more experience here, the point is that at this point a vet will give this person the most answers, especially with a history of lethargy and eye problems.
 

langers2004

New Member
is the chameleon always that colour? my veiled literally goes black on one side of her back just like that when she feels uncomfortable or when she is conserving heat... so it may well not be a burn, it may be a natural pigmentation... but do go and get it checked out.

to me, it doesnt look like a fungal infection. youd know if it were, as you would see fluffy lumps, only very small, but noticable. bacterial infections often result in sores and open wounds, so again this might not be the case.



@ferretinmyshoes
dont think there is any reason to cause panic btw. having been involved acadmically with many animals of various species, there is often a logical explanation. panic may lead to irrational options and the animal may not recieve the best treatment/ help.

so yea, have it checked out and perhaps review where your lighting and heating systems are if it turns out to be a burn!

Yer he has always been pretty dark. But someone has now mentioned a condition were over uv can cause this colour change however it is not a burn.

Chams appratenly go this colour when in direct sunlight anyway something to do with blocking uv or heat or something.

Im moving my lighting as i was told that it needed to be 4" from the top of the cage but infact it needs to be 12

Im also getting some drops for his eyes incase he has scratched them or anything.

thanks for your help though
 

langers2004

New Member
It doesn't even matter who has more experience here, the point is that at this point a vet will give this person the most answers, especially with a history of lethargy and eye problems.
Definitely nothing like those pics.

Close up his skin wtill looks perfect just a different colour
 

ferretinmyshoes

Veterinarian
Staff member
Langers - it looks like you're on the right track with the husbandry answers you provided but I have just a few suggestions:

Chams need warmth to digest their food so if you want to feed him twice a day I would do it in the morning and afternoon no later than 3pm so he has plenty of time to digest his food before going to bed that night.

Gut loading is absolutely critical to good health, especially in a growing boy! You will want to provide dark leafy greens such as collards, kale, turnip greens, dandelions and a mix of fruits and veggies. The link in my signature has nutritional info on commonly available fruits and veggies to give you an idea of what to use. Aim for those higher in calcium than phosphorus and avoid goitrogens and oxalates as they interfere with calcium absorption. It's a list made for iguanas but the concepts are the same. Feeding those to your crickets before they are fed to your Cham will definitely be much better for him.

Dusting schedule most commonly recommended is calcium (without D3 or phosphorus) at every feeding and alternate once a week between a multivitamin and calcium with D3 so those are given twice a month.

Remember that UVB bulbs only last about 6 months so you will need to change the bulb twice a year even if it's still shining because it is not outputting adequate levels of UVB.

If you have any questions about any of that please feel free to ask. I hope you get an answer for your little guy and he improves soon! :)
 

matthewpstyles

New Member
it might be like mine then after all. yeah, they have quite afew layers of skin, and to protect the more sensitive ones from uv and other forms of light based damage, they can darken the surface layers.
 
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