bad news from the vet

jandie

New Member
took azlynn (our ankaramy that recently laid eggs) back to the vet today....some of you may remember that i posted a thread about some odd places under her arms....(neither did the vet the last time i took her in and he didn't do anything with them at that time because the more pressing issue was possible egg binding)

well, they've continued to get worse, and she now has what looks like fluid up around her neck...so i took her back in today, and the vet used a syringe to aspirate it and see what was going on (he originally thought it was probably air, indicating another problem) and basically, she has fluid around her neck, under her arms and in her stomach.... he said it could be from liver failure, some sort of heart failure or complications from holding the eggs in too long or free floating eggs that were retained or something like that....(though, if she had the places under her arms before she had developed any eggs, i don't see that being likely)....

so my question was pretty much, what can we do? and the response is....we can scope her and try to figure out what the problem is, which would require anesthetizing her, or chem panels drawing blood and running other tests, but the bottom line is....with fluid like this at this volume...there's nothing to do to fix it, so i don't want to put her through all of that with it if it's not going to "fix" anything. i brought her home to try to make things as comfortable as possible for her with whatever happens....

just thought i would share and say thank you for all of the help and suggestions with my previous posts with her......and maybe there will be a miracle...i'm certainly not a pessimist, so i will update if things change for the better. :(
 

ChamChick

New Member
I'm so sorry to hear about what you are both going through. I really do wish you the best, and I have my fingers crossed for you guys that she will get better. Good luck with everything.
 

ChameleonRave

Avid Member
Oh Jandie I am so sorry about that. I didn't see your other thread, but this one made me sad. I hope that your little girl will be able to pull through. Hopefully a miracle will happen. Please keep us updated.
Zac
 

Scott85

New Member
I found your previous post.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/unusual-bumps-52369/

I have also seen this before on females. The females that I have noticed it on seem to develop edema when they are gravid. The fluid that is under their skin actually moves around. If the face down the branch it concentrates up toward their necks and it looks very bad. When they face the other way, it usually ends up in their belly and legs. This fluid also seems to build and invert their armpits. That is the bumps that I think you are seeing. Like texaspantherman said in the last post, they never seem to really go away once the edema goes away. It is like their armpits are permanently outties now.

The edema can be caused by a variety of things. In my experience dehydration and over supplementation are the most common causes. Organ failure is another cause that should be considered, often that is from dehydration too. Adding to things, some female just seem to get edema when they are gravid. Probably due to some imbalance in nutrition or water supply while they are forming their eggs.

Most of the time the edema will go away with increased emphasis on water intake. Make sure they drink all that they will atleast twice daily. Make sure the water is RO water, I have run into an issue with softened well water causing edema. Usually if I see edema I halt the supplimenting of anything but calcium until I have it under control. I also agree with what other said in you original post about the vets dry gutload. You might want to try a gutload that is more vegetable/fruit and less grain. I have also noted that a slight increase in temps helps make things work faster. You must be sure to increase the water substantially though if you increase the temps. Otherwise it will work against you and cause further dehydration, and only make the edema worse.

Try some extended shower sessions with her this weekend. Hopefully it will help.
 

jandie

New Member
thanks for the advice...i have been doing the showers and increasing her water availability, but she has always been my best drinker.... and the vet's gut load, i stopped using that back with the original recommendation to stop....the gutloading i use mainly consists of collard greens, oranges, grapes, pineapple, blueberries and melons.... the primary supplementing i've used has been calcuim without d3 most days and only an additional vitamin supplement 1x/mo (i've decreased since that post as well mainly because i've been using more worms for diet and i don't dust those....) if you think it will help, i'll hold off on that completely. her urates and fecals have been perfect, even while she was gravid....so i'm not sure. maybe i'm dusting the crickets too heavily though? with the calcium?

he made it seem like there's no way she'll "recover" from it....do you think there's a possibility or are the recommendations primarily to keep her comfortable? none of our other girls have shown any signs of this or had problems while they were gravid or after laying.... i'm willing to try anything with her....
 

Julirs

New Member
I have a female Nosy Be, that at 6 months developed this exact "edemic" situation and has retained it-she is now over 3 year old. She has never laid a clutch. I had talked to an experienced mass breeder of Panthers, and he said he does in fact see this every once in awhile, and has never been able to get it to subside in some animals. In fact he has sucessfully bred these females with no issues. My female gets very little supplementation as far as calcium-say 2-3 times monthly, and no multivite-both cause her to blow up a bit more. She lives in a modified cage, plants and vines near the bottom with lights adjusted. She is extremely clumsy, and falls over alot. But she eats just fine, basks, poops, and moves around the cage. And like I said, is over 3 years old.
Now-retaining large amounts of developing eggs is follicular stasis. I did lose a female to that. I am not sure about the "free floating egg" reference.
 

jandie

New Member
thanks. i was a little surprised the vet didn't mention edema at any point.... he is a reptile vet and he's been pretty "right on" with everything else.... i'm certainly not going to just "give up" with her.....she still gets around fine, though she more "crawls" along now vs standing up and walking as much when she's out on my hand....
 

Kansascity

New Member
SO sorry to hear this Thought’s and prayers are with you. I am so new to the Cham world I am not even walking yet, so I have no advice. Just wanted to let you know I will be thinking of you and your Cham.
 
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