Are these safe for my Cham to eat?

Tara

New Member
I used to think they were lady bugs...then someone said they were Japenese beetles, so I'm not sure. Every year these little bugs invade my home. If I don't get my air conditioner out of my window in time they come in through the cracks and are everywhere. One year I spent all day vacuuming them up. And at any given time you can usually find some around.
Since they are always available, do you think they are ok for my chams to eat? I live out in the country..out of city limits....their are a couple of farms nearby. Should I be scared of pesticides?
I was also told that these beetles were released on purpose to deal with another bug overpopulation...of course now they are the ones out of control. Here are some pics of them.. Thanks, Tara
 

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Brad

Administrator
Staff member
attack of the lady bugs :eek:

Lady bugs are not good for your cham. I would have to look at some references to make sure, but I believe they may be poisonous. Many times insects with color markings like that are poisonous in some way. I will make sure and get back to you, but until then I would not recommend using them.
 

lele

Avid Member
that is a lady bug...

Good you asked. Never feed a collected insect unless you are absolutely sure of its i.d.

the ones that infest your home are from Asia so some people may call them Japanese beetles
. They are becoming very troublesome and imapcting some of our native LB :(

Brad, you are right as far as them being toxic. In nature orange/black/red/yellow are "warning" colors. There are some exceptions and insect mimics but unless you know the insect always avoid any of these color combination. Fireflies are lethal as are monarch butterflies!
 

Tara

New Member
Thanks guys!

Boy I'm glad I waited. Too bad though, since their is a never ending supply around here. I just got some more crickets for them. What else is good for baby chams that won't perish really fast, that I should add as a staple food? I'm going to place an order online soon. Tara
 

Brad

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks for the info lele.

lele said:
Japanese beetles ... They are becoming very troublesome and impacting some of our native LB
That is too bad :( A good example of why some governments are and should be strict on their imports.


Tara said:
What else is good for baby chams that won't perish really fast, that I should add as a staple food?
Crickets do seem to die off kind of quickly sometimes. With proper care this can be minimized. Silkworms are also a good choice and are easy to care for. Both will eventually outgrow your chameleons. I used crickets, fruit flies, and silkworms when my current chameleon was 3-5 months. I used the silkworms that grew too big to make eggs... I have thousands now.
 

Tara

New Member
Thanks Brad!

I was leaning toward silkworms when I heard them mentioned. I just wasn't sure what was small enough for them to eat. That's a big help! T
 

2by2

New Member
I have those same beatles invade my house every year late in the summer. Last year I walked out and could barely walk to my car there were so many. I felt like I was stuck in that hitchcock movie "The Birds" or something except with lady bug type creatures. My house is almost 50 years old....and apparently I have lots of cracks they can get in. It seems I always find at least a couple in my house every week year round.
Anyway, last year I did some digging for info on these guys because I also thought they were lady bugs. Or at least something closely related. I was also under the impression that they were toxic. I was unable to find anything that had in writing that these beatles were toxic to other animals, or not toxic for that matter. However, I recieved feedback from multiple very trusted sources that told me that lady bugs are in fact not harmful to your chams. And neither are these asian beatles. (They did however mention not to feed alot of them) I'm inclined to believe my sources because the way my house is, its just about impossible to keep these things completely away from my chams. Every once in a while I find a random one climbing around in one of my cages. I havn't had any unexplained deaths in the last couple years so if they are toxic, (which they very well may be) its apparently not toxic enough to do any damage in limited quantities.
In no way would I recomend feeding these things as a staple, or even as a treat, because not only do they probably contain at least some form of very mild toxin, their shells also contain high amounts of chitin. They are also carnivores. They eat other bugs.....my bet is their nutritional content is lots of protien, lots of fat and a ridiculously off calcium to phosphorus rating.
Just figured I'd chime in and ease the fear of these things invading a cage and killing your cham. I used to worry about them.....now I barely notice them.
 

Tara

New Member
That's a relief!

I won't worry about them much. I do not see any way in my chams home, but you never know. I live in WV and my home was at one time a gas statiom. Then it was my hubby's grandparents house. A lot has been upgraded and redone...but I to muct have lots of hole because lots find their way in. There are also areas of the house when I can feel cold air coming in. That is on my list of projects.
I did once walk down my front steps an was shocked when I turned around to look at the house. The house looked like it was moving!! It was so creepy. They had covered the entirefront of the house. Ever see that movie when they are attacked by bees and they swarm the house? yeah, like that!
Oh and there was that time one had climbed down the straw in my drink and I swallowed it when I took a drink in the middle of the night! oh I'm gagging thinking about it! I couldn't eat for the whole day!
The worst is that they leave their little brown/black tracks on the ceiling and corners. In some spots I have scrubed it and then even painted over and the stain just comes right back through!
Thanks for the link Brad. It will definately help. It is so overwhelming just caring properly for the chams...with so much to learn..and now I have to learn to care for the food!
A question....gutloading..Ican probably find a food for the crickets that does that instead of making my own. If I was to buy like 50 or so crickets for the week, should I gutload feed them in that time between purchase and feeding them to my chams? So far I have just sprinkled them once with Tetrafauna Reptolife plus-multi Vitamin abd mineral formula plus. Thanks Tara
 

lele

Avid Member
I beg to differ...

2by2 said:
I was unable to find anything that had in writing that these beatles were toxic to other animals, or not toxic for that matter. However, I recieved feedback from multiple very trusted sources that told me that lady bugs are in fact not harmful to your chams. And neither are these asian beatles.
there is actually quite a bit of information available online and elsewhere Multicolored Asian Lady Beetle (MALB) Here is a quote from that article.

Not only is the presence of MALB annoying, but some people develop an allergic rhinoconjunctivitis to MALB. Many people are caught off guard by the fact that MALB will bite humans, especially in the autumn.

With a few entomology courses behind me, rearing many insects - not only as feeders, but for research and education - as well as living in a 250 year old house that has lots of places for these to sneak in –lol!, I feel qualified when I say do not feed these to your chams. Have you ever vacuumed them up or squashed one? Notice the smell? These defense chemicals are stronger in some insects than in others and do not always mean toxicity, sometimes just unpleasant, but in the case of the MALB there is a level of toxicity. One is unlikely to kill a cham but can definitely irritate the mouth and nose mucosa and end up causing an URI, or other problem.

With Tara’s chams being young and maybe not in the best of health (shipper, not her) it is even MORE prudent for them not to eat them. It is also likely that they would not eat them due to the warning colors. Darwin (beardie) is in an open tank and if one gets in he does a lot of eyeballing but has yet to actually eat one. As I said in previous post these colors are “known” as warnings to other animals. There are several studies on Monarch butterflies (toxic) and blue jay responses after eating one. They will not eat another b/c the first one made them vomit. The Viceroy butterfly is a “mimic” in that its color and pattern is almost identical to the monarch but does not have the same toxic constituents, however, a blue jay (or other bird/animal) that has tried a monarch will not eat a Viceroy – mother nature at some of her trickiest and evolution at its finest! :E

So, do what you will with this info – it’s your cham…

lele
 

lele

Avid Member
More MALB info and trivia

Brad said:
That is too bad :( A good example of why some governments are and should be strict on their imports.
Believe me, subject of MUCH controversy! The MALB were brought in mainly for the home gardener to release b/c they, just like out native lady beetle, eat lots of aphids, especially when in their larval stage. Like so many understudied biological controls these were imported and released with abandon and now are threatening some of our own lady beetles (the nine-spot in NY is one example) and they have also been seen to attack 2nd instar monarch caterpillars! Very distressing (pic of that in link in my other post).

Bio-controls are now being studied more before being brought in (I could on and on about this subject as it is near to my heart. The fly that was brought in to control gypsy moth is threatening some of our wild silk moths, which I raise). But there are also good results as well.

Keep in mind, not all alien insect pests come in "with permission." the Asian Long Horned Beetle with is devastating trees in NE and Central US came in on palettes carrying items from Asia. Anyone interested in learning more about this subject let me know and I'll send you some links and book sources.

Btw, in Asia the MALB hibernate in cliff walls in winter and many of our homes are the closest thing to it so thats where they go and then find their way inside. When you see swarms of them it is on the south side of a house where they are sunning before entering (locating) or coming out in spring/summer. MALB trivia :D
 
Those aren't japanese beetles - japanese beetles are shiny, green and brown beeltes that destroy plants an deat roots when in their larval stage.
Unless, of course, a regional word for asian ladybugs is japanese beetle. Then ignore what I'm saying...
 

lele

Avid Member
Eric,

not sure which post you are referring to, but I noticed in my initial one the pic of Jap beetle didn't work (still getting used to the ways of this forum! lol!)

here is the pic of the Japanese Beetle[img="http://www.ent.iastate.edu/images/coleoptera/scarabaeidae/japanese_beetle_adult.jpg"]http://www.ent.iastate.edu/images/coleoptera/scarabaeidae/japanese_beetle_adult.jpg[/img]

The Multi-colored Asian Lady Beetle (MALB) is a species of the well-known lady beetle (as described in my previous posts), which is what Tara showed in the pic. You are right about the Japanese beetle. Another introduced pest species.

lele
 

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the ones that infest your home are from Asia so some people may call them Japanese beetles
. They are becoming very troublesome and imapcting some of our native LB

>>>>>>>>>>>

That's what confused me. The pic in the first post was an asian ladybug, not a japanese beetle as I know them. I thought you guys were saying that the MALB was the japanese beetle... just a little confusion.

In NJ, we thought june bugs were japanese beetles, the real japanese beetles are all over down here in NC - a real pest.
 

lele

Avid Member
I think you just skipped the post where I said it was not a JB. I am in NH and they are a pest here, too. A couple summers ago they were eating marigold, which is unheard of! I have a Horticulture degree and know many in the field and we were ALL surprised at that one! My design clients were even complaining. It meant that their population density was so high that they were expanding their 'epicurean palate' :eek:
 
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