Applesauce?

[JackAttack]

hey all,

so jack hasnt eaten for two days ( he's been sick and on meds) and i have been hydrating him with a dropper. just wondered what i could feed him to keep his energy up......ive heard that i could use applesauce......any suggestions? he's not even interested in anything that moves, not even his fave horned ..........

 

[JackAttack]

jack is a 2 year old male veiled

 

[Brad Ramsey]

What medication is he on and for what problem?
Two days is not that long.
I would not try to force feed anything at this point.

-Brad

 

[JackAttack]

he is on baytril.......once a day. they suspect an infection in his joints they did xrays, and showed nothing, except that he should be a big healthy cham.....all week he hasnt been eating properly....the most he's eatin was on sat....3 med sized horned worms.

 

[JackAttack]

here is a link to my prev thread about his health .......

https://www.chameleonforums.com/help-chameleon-has-fallen-22259/

 

[Eric Adrignola]

He will not eat, and he will probably throw up anything you do feed him, while he's on that stuff.

All vets say baytril is safe for their kidneys.
Baytril is not safe on chameleons' kidneys - most vets just do not know this.
If your vet suspects kidney problems, baytril is a rather time consuming and painful (especially for the owner) way to kill it.

Judging by the symptoms you describe, you chameleon will ose grip even further, eventually ending up writhing around on the floor of his cage, with no sense of balance. He will not eat nor willl he drink, and he'll die in about the time it take to finish his baytril treatment.

I am not a vet, and I have NOT seen the animal. So I can not know for sure.

and by the way three medium sized horn worms is more than my adults get in three days. If that was how much he eats when he's "not eating much" , then he's normally eating TOO MUCH!

 

[kinyonga]

I have had good experience with baytril for my chameleons. Many have taken it and recovered from what they were sick with. I have almost always given it orally so its not painful to give it to the chameleon. I have never had one writhe in pain after taking it either.

Have you tried to stick an insect between his teeth when he was opening and closing his mouth when drinking?? This is less stressful than forcing him. He only needs to eat a couple of crickets a day.

If he won't take an insect (spits it out or throws it up then he is in trouble.)

You could try babyfood squash or sweet potato. He won't need much of this a day either...maybe a tablespoon.

What is the basking temperature? The temperature where he sits all the time?

Are you being careful that he doesn't aspirate the water (take it into his lungs)?

 

[Eric Adrignola]

I have heard some good stories with the stuff - but all my experiences were bad, and most others I have heard firsthand were equally bad.

One thing you point out that is important to note - all instances I have heard of the chameleons responding well to baytril had something in common: Every chameleon that recovered with baytril acted relativly normally whle undergoing treatment, eating, drinking, basking, etc.

All of my experiences resulted in the animal refusing food, vomiting and/or spitting up anything I force fed, and a total change in behavior, loss of balance/grip, wobbly behavior, weirdness in general, worsening as treatment goes on.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

I've had nothing but good experiences with batryl, at least it has never made things worse, I have seen none of the side effects that Eric mentioned.
Yes, batryl puts extra strain on the kidneys (as do many medications) which is why it's important to provide more water during and after treatment.

I would try to get a few crickets in him when you give him his meds or while he's drinking. In my experience unless a chameleon is really sick or stressed, it will start chewing when you put a cricket in its mouth.

 

[JackAttack]

wow, thank you all for your very helpful responses.........here is the new scenereo......the vet called back and said that they found parasites in jacks poop, which live in the intestines. she said that they are more than likely causing him not to absorb protein, so it is being distributed in his body, causing the swelling that he now has. she wants to start him on a pretty strong medicine for parasites, the only option she tells me, but has let me know its hard on the kidneys and he will need daily injections of fluid under the skin while he is on the medicine, to reduce the impact on his kidneys. she sounds pretty sure that since nothing else seems to be working ( the baytril is on day 4 now, and he was on another med for a week with no improvement) this is the cause for his swollen limbs................any thoughts

 

[jannb]

What kind of parasites does he have? What's the name of the medication she's give him for the parasites?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Kind of wondering too. What parasites does he have that cannot be treated with an oral dose ? Injections seem to push the limits of the chameleon, as well as the knowledge of some vets ... not that your cham isn't sick, but its often kind of like killing a fly with a hammer. Was a fecal not done with the first visit ? Kind of like part of a quick analysis ? Its about the cheapest and fastest thing they can do, and should be part of any check, IMMHO. I raise these questions only because on occasion we have seen treatments, prescribed by vets, that indicated that the vet was not well versed with chameleon medicine. I hope whatever is done, all returns to normal, to include your wallet.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Almost forgot ...

Raised a few chameleons in my day, and have had to force-feed a few. I still defer back to something Dr. Scott Stahl showed me darn near a decade ago, and which is still the best force-feed IMO. Take an appropriate sized gut-loaded cricket. Smash its head. Grab your chameleon behind the head. It will say "Ahhh". Using something relatively soft (not metal tweezers) like a Q-tip, as the chameleon is going to chomp down on it once or twice, get that dead cricket as far back in the throat as you can. Waaaaaay back. Then put the chameleon down. If far enough back, they will swallow it. 2-3 per day is enough. Eat the applesauce yourself.

 

[Syn]

Isn't pedialyte or something like that better for hydration? Just a question.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

Yup - it's not really force feeding, kinda like assisted feeding.

It almost sounds like your vet is pulling an OBGYN - they have to do something... Sometimes, it's best to just leave it be. This may NOT be a case like that, but it may. With these things, sometimes the treatments are worse than what they're trying to fix -and often vets/doctors will just "do" something to seem like they are doing soemthing, or to seem like they know more than they do.

Like vets that shotgun every chameleon with parasite medicine, or give them preventative antibiotics. If they don't , they're really not doing anythign but looking at it - and who wants to pay for that?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Isn't pedialyte or something like that better for hydration? Just a question.

It is, but as for "something like that", IMMHO, Gatorade is even better. For chameleons. We use it here. No joke. Just an answer.

 

[Syn]

It is, but as for "something like that", IMMHO, Gatorade is even better. For chameleons. We use it here. No joke. Just an answer.

Wow that's way cool! I'll have to PM you about that.

 

[JackAttack]

she tested his poop for parasites, and he has them. she said they are living in his intestines, and are more than likely stopping the protein from being absorbed, thus causing it to build up in his body, causing the adema ( swelling) in the limbs. ive stopped the baytril, and will start what she has for us tomorrow. the antibiotic that she is starting us on is what will kill the parasites, the injections that come along with it are just fluid, to ensure he has lots of fluid while on these meds. she said they can be wearing on the kidneys, so she wants to make sure he gets the fluid........ i know it could be nothing, but we've left it this long untreated successfully ( its been about 3 weeks since it all started, and none of the other meds have worked) and he's been getting progressively weaker and weaker, not better and better.........so really, what am i to do? let him keep getting weaker until he cant use his limbs at all? i appreciate all the help, i really do, its a hard situation. seems im damned if i do, and damned if i dont. i just want jack to get better...........

 

[JackAttack]

and i dont feel like my vet is just "having" to do something, if there was nothing wrong with him, and she could have sent him home after the first visit, perfect, better and less heartache/hassle for both of us. i dont see the point in her just stringing me along and killing my cham with medicine for no good reason. she's trying to help me, and i appreciate that. so are you all, and i appreciate that too. nobody really knows the answers, so we might as well keep trying. if this medicine doesnt help him, i will take him off all meds and let him be.......but i feel like i have to try and help him, especially when the test came back positive with parasites. i'll let you know tomorrow what kind they are etc........

 

[Chameleon Company]

No no no. It surely has to be treated. I think Eric and myself, and others, were just prodding you to be sure the vet was up to the best decisions. That the intestinal parasites were not identified during your first office visit, as fecals are quick and easy, and are then not treated more simply than what you describe, does not mesh with the experiences that a few of us have had. Keep us posted.

To others who may have to take a cham to a vet with some unknown illness. Fecals are cheap and quick, and should be a part of any check. Depending on time, save the first fecal you can get from your chameleon, once you know you have a vet visit upcoming, by placing it in a baggie and putting it in the refrigerator. Replace it with a fresher one at every opportunity before the visit. Never freeze it. Bring it to the vet. They should be able to check it while you wait, unlike bacteria panels, etc.