100W bulb and....

wsidepinoy

New Member
it is HOT 110f 2-3" from the bulb, about 90 from the top of the screen cage and 78 from the nearest basking spot/ pearch ! (aka about 10" from the light itself)....

the other side of the cage stays around 61 - 65 and the basking spot atm is 79.6, is this too low ?

im using a 100w bulb (basking bulb from zoo med & a mini deep dome fixture from them as well) and im acheviing these heats (using a digital thermometer with humidity displayed as well).

I have a female Veiled chameleon too ! isnt this too cold ? should i switch to a higher wattage ? i was thinking of going to 125w and trying it or should i try a different bulb ?
 

RAFASTAR23

New Member
Are you talking about the heat source light bulb? ...then 78F at the closest perching branch is not that bad. Though, you may want to raise that temp a bit more for a vield.
 

wsidepinoy

New Member
yeah sorry, a heat source light bulb...100w basking bulb from zoo med

nvm the temp just went up a bit (slowly and steadily) to 82/83 for the past 20mins so far....
 

RAFASTAR23

New Member
yeah sorry, a heat source light bulb...100w basking bulb from zoo med

nvm the temp just went up a bit (slowly and steadily) to 82/83 for the past 20mins so far....
Usually a 100W bulb is sufficient, but you have to monitor your set-up's temp to make sure.
 

wsidepinoy

New Member
yeah, im thinking it was cold in the room and the rest of the house was warm and we have bad insulation in this house so a room could stay cold then entire time if you shut the vents off LOL

plus the windows in the room are super old one pane style...
 

Chris Jury

New Member
A basking temperature in the low 80's is too low for this species (or any chameleon species) IMHO. These guys select body temperatures in the mid 80's to low 90's F given the opportunity. It is common to see them actively basking even when ambient temperatures are in the 80's and 90's F (e.g., in outdoor caging). The basking site should hit at least 90 F, but ideally 95-105 F with ambient temperatures falling to the upper 70's to low 80's F in the coolest part of the enclosure. IME, this gives them excellent opportunities to thermoregulate, and they can stay sufficiently warm without spending 100% of their time basking.

I might try wrapping a bit of plastic around some sides of the cage, to help retain a bit of heat. I'd also move the basking branch closer, so you get at least 90 F there.

cj
 

fluxlizard

Avid Member
Instead of moving up in bulb size, what I would do is provide a second basking light and try to raise the ambient temp in the enclosure overall and the primary basking site along with it. Maybe even by wrapping or covering part of the enclosure and reducing airflow if a second light isn't doing the trick, or by moving the enclosure in front of a south facing window where the sun can warm it during the day.

Chris- you are going to get some pushback on that opinion here.

I'm in the middle somewhere on it. I know you are saying is natural and see it in my own calyptratus, but there are forum members who strongly believe that lower basking temps for calyptratus leads to longer lifespans- especially for females whose reproductive system is apparantly effectively turned way down or off at the lower temps forum members recommend (low 80s basking site). I had a real hard time accepting this when I first got on the forums because it flipped everything I know from 20 years of breeding lizards- seems like they should be immune system repressed as well as reproductive system repressed at those temperatures for example. Also experience with other lizards suggests to me a very strong correlation between body temperature and ability to absorb certain nutrients effectively, and higher temperatures in the lab are related to more effective production of d3 from basking lights. Yet at least one forum member claims the worlds oldest female veileds using that method and many others are following her example with apparent success- it's hard to argue with successful experience. I wanted to try this method and see for myself, but I found this past year that it is impossible for me to provide those conditions most of the year. So, for now I just have to say I don't understand what is going on, but I can't argue with success...
 

warpdrive

Avid Member
to the original poster...
I would just try to raise the ambiant room temps to 72F-74F instead of going with a higher light bulb. such a bulb could lead to burns and the rest of the cage is still cold anyway.
if you can get your room to the above temps, then you'll find that you may only need a 60W light bulb. most here only use standard household bulbs for heat and don't buy any expensive lights.

a 5 to 10 degree dip in room temps is fine at night, but for most of the day you want the temps to be in the low to mid 70s.

Harry
 

wsidepinoy

New Member
ok so heres an update !

lol so i decided to utilize my heater (because I noticed i was wearing a hoodie and jeans inside my house) and have the ambient temperature in the house at 70 degrees.....

THIS in turn helped me to get the results a bit better !

basking spot is a constant 90-92f
ambient temp is a constant 71-73
humidity % at 50 atm ....

ALOT better then the other day without the heater going on....with that said my house is comfy for me and my cham

thank you for all the input !
 

Chris Jury

New Member
Glad to hear the temps are looking good! If it were me, I might still insulate the tank a bit, to get the ambient temp up maybe 5-10 F. This isn't a make or break by any means, but it would reduce the animals dependency on basking a bit.

Chris- you are going to get some pushback on that opinion here.

I'm in the middle somewhere on it. I know you are saying is natural and see it in my own calyptratus, but there are forum members who strongly believe that lower basking temps for calyptratus leads to longer lifespans- especially for females whose reproductive system is apparantly effectively turned way down or off at the lower temps forum members recommend (low 80s basking site). I had a real hard time accepting this when I first got on the forums because it flipped everything I know from 20 years of breeding lizards- seems like they should be immune system repressed as well as reproductive system repressed at those temperatures for example. Also experience with other lizards suggests to me a very strong correlation between body temperature and ability to absorb certain nutrients effectively, and higher temperatures in the lab are related to more effective production of d3 from basking lights. Yet at least one forum member claims the worlds oldest female veileds using that method and many others are following her example with apparent success- it's hard to argue with successful experience. I wanted to try this method and see for myself, but I found this past year that it is impossible for me to provide those conditions most of the year. So, for now I just have to say I don't understand what is going on, but I can't argue with success...
I've run into this 80 F basking site business a number of times here, and find it to be utterly bizarre. With adult animals, during the winter only, I can appreciate the utility in maintaining temperatures this low. It's normal, and in some other species lower wintertime temperatures seem to really help to stimulate breeding (Veileds don't seem to care much IME). During most of the year, and certainly for young animals, this seems like a terrible idea to me.

These animals live in places that range from the 80's to maybe 100 F during the daytime, during the warm season. They actively bask (including outdoors) when ambient temps are in the 80's and 90's F. In the laboratory and nature, they actively select body temps in the mid 80's to low 90's F by behaviorally thermoregulating. Keeping an animal that functions best at a body temperature of 86-92 F at 80 F or below long term is going to have some negative consequences.

As for the low temperatures preventing egg production in females: I have no doubt it is true, but can't fathom why people would think that is a good thing. Imagine your 12 year old daughter, sister, niece, whatever comes to you and says that she doesn't want to get her period, so she's decided to eat only 2/3 as much food as is considered healthy for her. Sure enough, she'll survive and will never get her period. She'll likely also end up with developmental problems, and will be more susceptible to disease, slower to heal from injury, and have other problems.

Now, granted, this analogy isn't perfect, but the idea that you can maintain an animal during growth and for the rest of its life at suboptimal body temperatures and think there won't be any consequences is, frankly, ludicrous.

If there are people here with very old Veiled chameleons that they've kept at low temperatures, ok, I wish them all the success in the world, and hope for the best for the animals. However, if we take a poll of the chameleons, the several million that live in nature, all of whom maintain higher body temps during the day most of the year outnumber the few dozen we might consider here ;)

cj
 
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