Why the High Humidity for Veileds?

Devokid · Apr 17, 2014

I can't, for the life of me, figure out why so many people are concerned with raising the humidity in their veileds cage. The humidity in Hajjah, Yemen was 19% today. This week, the night time humidity is forecasted to reach a max of 50% while the day time max will be 26%. It seems to me that most people should be using dehumidifiers instead of humidifiers. I live in Salt Lake City, which is one of the dryer locations in the US(high 20's low 30's), and veileds thrive here with the ambient humidity. I very rarely spray down their cages, using my automatic dripping system for water. Most people I talk to seem to believe that Veileds and Jackson's come from a similar habitat, and that just is not the case (78% today in Meru, Kenya). This obsession with raising the humidity upsets me because many of the animals that have been moved to glass cages, and/or are constantly bombarded with a cloud from the humidifier, get sick and die. Can somebody explain what I am missing?

Dannowar · Apr 17, 2014

where exactly is the temperature reading you're referencing?

is it in the middle of a forest where obviously the humidity is higher?

or is it from the top of a weather building where the general humidity is out in the open?

mabrams · Apr 17, 2014

I was wondering the same thing. Why would an animal from a semi-arid climate need humidity? makes no sense whatsoever. Panthers, sure, but not Veiled.

GrimsbyPatchwork · Apr 17, 2014

Great post. I have been wondering about this issue for ages and was going to start a thread some time ago but got sidetracked at work

...if you look up\google basic chamelon care it says that they need to be misted but what it does not indicate is the difference in species.

I fully agree with you that quite a few Veiled keepers here over stress about the fact that their humidy does not go over 60%...I don't think its necessary. Don't get me wrong,the misting is better than never misting as it gives the cham more opportunity to drink.

I think that yes is shrubs and areas with more trees, the humidity increases wherever you go but the country/area in general still has its average humidity.

I have looked up the weather for the Usambra Mountains a few times to check that I am close to replicating temps and humidity in my Kinjongia's enclosure.

PS . I have seen wild chameleons here in Malta in dry and hot areas with very little trees..that is what got me wondering in the first place as although I never looked up the weather in Yemen, I am under the impression that it is quite warm and dryish..

To get to the exit gates with this, and this is just my honest view on the matter, an by no means a fact..misting and keeping humidy high is beneficial, low to medium humidy should not pose a reason to panic...that is why Veileds are considered a beginner species ..

Devokid · Apr 17, 2014

Dannowar said:
where exactly is the temperature reading you're referencing?

is it in the middle of a forest where obviously the humidity is higher?

or is it from the top of a weather building where the general humidity is out in the open?

I would assume that it is from the weather station and not taken next to a river. That being said, the humidity will not jump from 19% to 60% just because a tree is near by. The humidity in the city of Salt Lake is often higher than it is up in the forest.

Psychobunny · Apr 18, 2014

Very good point the OP brings up, and one that I was wondering about also. I noticed that "care" sheets" floating around here and elsewhere stress misting and above 50% RH for veileds, but the logic seems to be for chams in general.

I do have my MistKing on both my veiled's cages, but this is more to give them a chance to drink, rather then humidity.

I have seen video's of veileds in the wilds of Yemen, and it's not exactly as "wild" as you may think. Most of the trees with chams in them were quite far appart, and very near roads and even highways.
The surrounding grounds were sparse of vegatation, and looked dry and dusty.
You can see these video's on youtube, just search "veileds in Yemen" and take a close look at the area where the trees are.

The only time I ever hand mist is when they are shedding.

I think maybe veiled cham care gets lumped into a "generalized" cham care catagory for the most part.

I would like to see some opinions from other members who have actually been there and studied the habitate of wild yemen chams first hand and have recorded temps, HR, and other data over time.

DGray · Apr 18, 2014

The habitat in the mountains of Yemen is not desert, and it is not like Sa'ana. The terrain is full of buttes, with steep cliffs broken by lots of valleys. These cliffs and valleys are forested and shrubs even grow on the cliff faces. Rain is not rare, and water does come down from the higher mountains. Mist in the night is the norm, and it gets pretty cold some times in winter. The habitats are very moist for much of the year, and while there are droughts, the regular dry seasons are not long.
How I know about this is from seeing the reports and videos of coffee researchers I worked with - this habitat is also the original home of Coffea arabica.
You should continue to give your veiled good humidity.

Carlton · Apr 18, 2014

GrimsbyPatchwork said:
Great post. I have been wondering about this issue for ages and was going to start a thread some time ago but got sidetracked at work

...if you look up\google basic chamelon care it says that they need to be misted but what it does not indicate is the difference in species.

I fully agree with you that quite a few Veiled keepers here over stress about the fact that their humidy does not go over 60%...I don't think its necessary. Don't get me wrong,the misting is better than never misting as it gives the cham more opportunity to drink.

I think that yes is shrubs and areas with more trees, the humidity increases wherever you go but the country/area in general still has its average humidity.

I have looked up the weather for the Usambra Mountains a few times to check that I am close to replicating temps and humidity in my Kinjongia's enclosure.

PS . I have seen wild chameleons here in Malta in dry and hot areas with very little trees..that is what got me wondering in the first place as although I never looked up the weather in Yemen, I am under the impression that it is quite warm and dryish..

To get to the exit gates with this, and this is just my honest view on the matter, an by no means a fact..misting and keeping humidy high is beneficial, low to medium humidy should not pose a reason to panic...that is why Veileds are considered a beginner species ..

It could be that we've developed this general rule because so many inexperienced keepers end up with a cage setup that is very very dry...concentrated heat spot and no dense vegetation that holds water droplets a THIRSTY cham could drink if it wants when it wants. From what I've read, arid habitat chams can and do retreat to more humid places in dense brush, and they are probably more concentrated there at specific times of day. We also know that the coastal river valleys can get dense fog even though it burns off each day. Still, there could be a high humidity period almost daily. We know veileds eat vegetation and many types of vegetation is arid areas are succulent. A captive cham in a cage doesn't have the chance to do this. Over time they just don't get the chance to recover their moisture reserves and start losing ground. Also consider that by the time a newbie's veiled is in trouble and they find the forum, its been a problem for a while.

Carlton · Apr 18, 2014

DGray said:
The habitat in the mountains of Yemen is not desert, and it is not like Sa'ana. The terrain is full of buttes, with steep cliffs broken by lots of valleys. These cliffs and valleys are forested and shrubs even grow on the cliff faces. Rain is not rare, and water does come down from the higher mountains. Mist in the night is the norm, and it gets pretty cold some times in winter. The habitats are very moist for much of the year, and while there are droughts, the regular dry seasons are not long.
How I know about this is from seeing the reports and videos of coffee researchers I worked with - this habitat is also the original home of Coffea arabica.
You should continue to give your veiled good humidity.

I'd agree with this. It's all about microclimates and terrain. The chances that weather stations are located in great local cham habitat is very low. Chams in more challenging habitats have to move around a lot more. They probably have small more humid retreats within their territories or they are not likely to survive.

chascarpenter1 · Apr 18, 2014

I would think, that even in their natural habitat, there are both dry and wet season. Also, like in Southern California's sage scrub region, it may be dry during mid day, but at night, morning and the evening it is quite damp due to the marine layer. In a regulated enclosure this variance could be simulated, but it may be easier to just provide a constant.

fluxlizard · Apr 18, 2014

The habitat in the mountains of Yemen is not desert, and it is not like Sa'ana. The terrain is full of buttes, with steep cliffs broken by lots of valleys. These cliffs and valleys are forested and shrubs even grow on the cliff faces. Rain is not rare, and water does come down from the higher mountains. Mist in the night is the norm, and it gets pretty cold some times in winter. The habitats are very moist for much of the year, and while there are droughts, the regular dry seasons are not long.
How I know about this is from seeing the reports and videos of coffee researchers I worked with - this habitat is also the original home of Coffea arabica.
You should continue to give your veiled good humidity.

While this is true, they are also found in the very arid areas- places that sometimes see no rain for several years in a stretch.

The book "Chamaeleo calyptratus the yemen chameleon" talks about this-

"FRITZ & SCHUTTE (1987)...

...animals from Damt were found not only in wadis, but also several kilometres away from water. Most of them lived on acacia trees carrying only very few leaves or no leaves at all. According to native Arabs, the last rainfall was more than three years ago..."

----

I've never worried much about humidity for this species- but then again, it is fairly humid where I live anyway (east coast)...

I would think, that even in their natural habitat, there are both dry and wet season. Also, like in Southern California's sage scrub region, it may be dry during mid day, but at night, morning and the evening it is quite damp due to the marine layer. In a regulated enclosure this variance could be simulated, but it may be easier to just provide a constant.

This very well could be the case, I don't know. But in some old published literature, scientists were guessing the casque of these lizards might collect dew and channel it down to the corners of the mouth. So the theories are in line with each other...

Why the High Humidity for Veileds?

Devokid

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Dannowar

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mabrams

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GrimsbyPatchwork

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Devokid

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Psychobunny

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DGray

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Carlton

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chascarpenter1

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