very conflicted with plants

so here I am thought I had a set list of plants to eventually get for my enclosure. I was just in a plant nursery and had 3 employees helping me out with numerous questions I had. One of the woman told me pretty much every plant I told her she said was toxic. She said all schefflera are toxic and pothos are extremely since they are in the family of the other toxic plant phil- something (could wait to get home to post so in the parking lot). So now I have no idea what to do or to get other than ficus and hibiscus. But heard number of stories of ficus causing eye problems too. End of rant...

Opinions or explanations about this?

They seem to be toxic to mammals, but the chameleons can eat them without any issues. I've never heard of issues anyways. If a veiled can eat nearly a whole pothos plant and not have any problems, I would think they are okay to use. My veiled likes his umbrella plant and had nearly eaten one bald at one point. Never had any issues.

pssh said:

They seem to be toxic to mammals, but the chameleons can eat them without any issues. I've never heard of issues anyways. If a veiled can eat nearly a whole pothos plant and not have any problems, I would think they are okay to use. My veiled likes his umbrella plant and had nearly eaten one bald at one point. Never had any issues.

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Woman saying everything was toxic is a cat lady so could explain that. And I did mention that to one of the other women as we walked away and she wasn't sure. They just assumed that how small a cham is compared to a mammal it would be harmful and they wouldn't have a strong digestive system.

You bring up another thing I'm conflicted with. Umbrella/schefflera's and what not. Everyone talks about about them usually using the one term as schefflera. So I go but a schefflera amate. Get home low and behold find out its toxic for chams. Returned it and will pick up nice arboricola when I find one seen one few weeks ago. Today at the store when I mentioned it to one of the employees she couldn't understand how one was more safe than the other.

On another note they had small 4" pot labeled arboricola but looks exactly like an amate. When asked about it she said reason why it's labeled like that is cause the family name is arboricola and that it was an amate was from Hawaii or something. Would that not make both amate and arboricola safe or both toxic?

Furthermore everyone keeps saying umbrella plants all the know as the umbrellas plant is the amate. Even when I looked online umbrella plants are classified as amate. Which once again are toxic. People on the forums have confirmed the amate are toxic and should not be used. I'm just getting beyond confused now

Hmm. I don't really know if one is more toxic than the other or what. I just use the dwarf umbrella plants from my local home improvement stores and it seems fine. Sorry I can't help much with that. Maybe if you can find if they are toxic to other reptiles you can find out? If I knew for sure that what I had was an amate, I don't know if I would want to test it with a veiled. Just in case, you know? Better safe than sorry. I might use one in a chameleon's cage that has never shown any signs of plant eating though.

pssh said:

Hmm. I don't really know if one is more toxic than the other or what. I just use the dwarf umbrella plants from my local home improvement stores and it seems fine. Sorry I can't help much with that. Maybe if you can find if they are toxic to other reptiles you can find out? If I knew for sure that what I had was an amate, I don't know if I would want to test it with a veiled. Just in case, you know? Better safe than sorry. I might use one in a chameleon's cage that has never shown any signs of plant eating though.

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I've started a thread on here and have read few posts saying the amate are there's a scientific name to it as well. They usually have longer leaves in groups of 7 and come to a point. The arboricola are shorter and rounder. I know some people have mentioned panthers don't usually eat plants me not having mine yet can say if he will or not so might not be a risk. I found a nice schefflera tree tonight at HD might be a bit tall but think of buying it for 28 and cutting it down to size. Seen really nice one few weeks ago wish I'd bought it now. Posted 2 pics taller one I'd put as an arboricola. Shorter one I'd say is an amate. But HD isn't a nursery so they don't specify they just label both as schefflers

Schefflera actinophylla (umbrella tree, octopus tree) Contains calcium oxalate crystals, like the Araceae (though it is in the Araliaceae instead), and causes similar irritation, swelling, pain, etc. There is also an allergen which can cause rashes and blistering, particularly in those exposed occupationally (like greenhouse workers, florists, propagators).
Schefflera arboricola (umbrella tree, octopus tree, arboricola) As for Schefflera actinophylla, q.v.

http://plantsarethestrangestpeople.blogspot.ca/2009/04/houseplant-toxicity-week-part-4.html

Does this mean they are safe?

You need to be researching a safe plant list for a chameleon not just looking up whether the plants are toxic in general or not.

Here's a list I found on toxic plants: http://www.chameleonsonline.com/toxic-plants.php

Here's a list I found on safe plants: http://www.flchams.com/safe_plant_list.asp

Although I think there is a more complete list out there I just couldn't find it. Also I'm 99% sure that if it says Schefflera are safe then all groups within schefflera are safe too.

Thegreatfonz said:

You need to be researching a safe plant list for a chameleon not just looking up whether the plants are toxic in general or not.

Here's a list I found on toxic plants: http://www.chameleonsonline.com/toxic-plants.php

Here's a list I found on safe plants: http://www.flchams.com/safe_plant_list.asp

Although I think there is a more complete list out there I just couldn't find it. Also I'm 99% sure that if it says Schefflera are safe then all groups within schefflera are safe too.

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Thanks, really do appreciate the reply I have looked at the lists on here and else where. The pothos figured it was just mammals. But the schefflera is what confuses me cause on here and on list the amate is not listed and almost everywhere says it's toxic and should not be used with chameleons. What the difference is between that and the arboricola not to sure. And definitely there is more than what's on that list. Just wanted another confirmation on the topic and appreciate that.

http://www.flchams.com/safe_plant_list.asp0 (ALL UPPERCASE LETTERS)
http://www.cleanlinechameleons.com/safe-plant-list/ (Mixed Case Letters)
These are two websites that list safe plants. I combined them and have a docx file with all the plants but cannot attach it here, or post it as it is too big. Many of the plants that are OK for chameleons are toxic to mammals. Most of the time when I have researched the toxin it is some form of calcium oxylate. So I am not sure why some plants with it are OK and some are not. Maybe it is just the concentration. Someone posted that philodendron are toxic for chams; pothos are not but both contain the same calcium oxylate. I remember reading somewhere that any plant with a milky sap is toxic but ficus and pothos both have milky sap.

And, just because a particular plant contains something that may be toxic does not mean a cham will be exposed if it does NOT eat the plant. Many chams don't chew on their cage plants or if they do they don't ingest enough to cause problems. I've used all sorts of Schefflera, Ficus, and Pothos in my cages for years (and some were never labeled completely enough to be sure of the exact species or variety) and have never had chams show signs of poisoning. Chances are the more irritating forms of oxylates also give that plant a bad taste. The classic Ficus sap eye irritation is overblown IMHO. The sap won't get in contact with the cham's eye unless the cham just happens to rub its eye on a freshly broken stem while the sap is running. Easy to avoid. If you buy a very dense Ficus you can prune the twigs so there is more space for the cham to climb through the structure without breaking stems along the way. After pruning, let the sap run until it stops. Then hose the plant off.

jamjam said:

so here I am thought I had a set list of plants to eventually get for my enclosure. I was just in a plant nursery and had 3 employees helping me out with numerous questions I had. One of the woman told me pretty much every plant I told her she said was toxic. She said all schefflera are toxic and pothos are extremely since they are in the family of the other toxic plant phil- something (could wait to get home to post so in the parking lot). So now I have no idea what to do or to get other than ficus and hibiscus. But heard number of stories of ficus causing eye problems too. End of rant...

Opinions or explanations about this?

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I think you can weigh the merits of many cham keepers over how many decades who have used these plants safely in cham setups and how few poisoning events occur. Listen to cham experts...they know from experience.

I appreciate all of the replies. I have read through a number of safe plant lists and have been doing so for past few months thats why I already had/have a pothos ficus and arboricola already picked out and I also know about them more than likely having to eat it to be affected. I brought up this thread for some reassurance. Guess I shouldnt have added the pothos into this thread cause that I was certain it was safe. Woman at the plant store just annoyed me saying it was toxic and threw it in here in frustration. The biggest confusion are with these schefflera's even now I have one person saying should be okay with all shefflera's and another saying to just stick with arboricola.

Since I started this thread think I have concluded to try and find nice sized arboricola. although i like the amate more. Still would be nice hearing different view/opinions and experiences with those who have or use the amate because question gets asked often.