Trouble with Egg Laying. HELP.

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Female, Veiled Chameleon, roughly 2 1/2 years old, owned for about 2 years...
* Handling - Not often, maybe twice a week - but she's very comfortable when handled (doesn't get stressed out easily)
* Feeding - Gut Loaded, Dusted Crickets every other day and the occasional butter or wax worm...Although, with her being gravid and all, she does not have any interest in eating at all and I am having a hard time getting her to...
* Supplements - (see above) ...Using ReptiCal and Total Bites...
* Watering - Has a drip system in terrarium, and also receives water through an syringe/eye dropper (occasionally, if I suspect she hasn't been drinking... like now...)
* Fecal Description - Normally, it's good and healthy looking, and regular, nothing to worry about here... now (because she's gravid) it's much less/smaller than usual, but still pretty regular...
* History - She's laid two previous clutches of eggs since I got her and the last one, I counted 62 eggs!! But she had absolutely no problem laying them until now... We've been to see the Vet Several times over the past three weeks, trying different remedies, etc (will expand on this later...)


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Screen Terrarium, Approximately 2 feet X 2 feet X 4.5 feet
* Lighting - Mega Ray, 100W (UVA, UVB, Heat... all-in-one sorta thing) Her light is on a timer and comes on at 10:00 AM and goes off and 10:00 PM (been this way for as long as Ive had her)
* Temperature - The temperature is pretty steady between 79F and 82F (no lower, no higher)...using a digital ExoTerra thermometer...
* Humidity - Usually at around 60% + ...using a digital ExoTerra Hygrometer...
* Plants - No Live plants in her terrarium, but she does have a Hibiscus that I keep in the backyard (in the summer) and the house (in the winter) that she enjoys supervised climbing on... other than that, just fake terrarium plants, vines, logs, leafs, etc...
* Placement - The cage is in my bedroom (fairly low-traffic), not near a window or any vents or drafts... it sits on a platform with wheels (locked so it doesn't move) that lifts it about 2-3 inches off the ground... not close to the ceiling...
* Location - Ontario, Canada (GTA Area)


Current Problem - I originally took her to the vet about three weeks ago. At the time, she had been carrying what felt like a small amount of eggs for about a week and a half to two weeks. I took her in because I noticed that she was gaining a lot of weight (which I assumed was because she was gravid... I was right...) but also because she started doing this funny thing with her mouth and head - she would put her head back as far as possible, gape her mouth wide open and flail her head around. I thought she might have a respiratory infection or something so I booked an appointment...So, the vet examined her and said that she was actually carrying quite a lot of eggs and she was probably doing the funny head thing because the eggs were positioned awkwardly making it hard for her to breathe, but otherwise was not too much of an issue and I should just massage her belly occasionally to try and help her reposition the eggs.

Then, I noticed a couple of days later when offering her a worm by hand (which she has not problems with), that she came right up to in instead of using her tongue. I told the Vet and she requested that we bring her back in. She said that likely because she hasn't been eating very much because she is gravid she might be a bit deficient in calcium, so she gave her an injection of calcium with saline and gave me a bottle of liquid calcium to giver orally twice, daily. This seemed to help her tongue, though she still has no interest in eating.

Next came the concern that she was not taking water (on her own or from me...) so back to the vet we went and they put a small tube in her mouth and administered water with electrolytes. This helped with dehydration.

So now the major concern is that with all these smaller problems fixed, she is still not laying her eggs and it has now been about 4 and half weeks to 5 weeks. She does dig but I have not found any eggs in her dirt. So, the vet suggested water baths (soak her in warm water to release tension in her muscles and massage her belly to encourage her to push... like a water birth!). I have been doing this now for about a week (oh! also with two more home injections of calcium because the vet thought this would help her muscles to push and cope with the exertion...) but, still no luck!! The vet has been very good about calling for updates and after speaking to them today, they want to see her again because nothing seems to be working.

So! I was wondering if maybe anyone else has had this happen and what you did to help her... I am so worried sick about her and would be devastated if anything bad happened to her... Any advice at all is much appreciated!! Thank you!

What dates did she lay the other clutches of eggs? Has she ever been mated?
How many eggs were in each of the clutches?
What specific supplements are you using and how often for each (before the vet added the injections, etc.)?

Did she go through the proper egglaying scenario with the other clutches?
Is she still digging?

Comments...when a chameleon is digging, she should not see you watching her or she will abandon the hole thinking that its an unsafe place to lay the eggs. IMHO she should also not be disturbed during the time that she is in the "egglaying mode"....there is only so long that they have that "urge" to lay them and then they won't be able to lay them without help (oxytocin, surgical removal, etc.).

Is she still digging? If not, when was the last time?

The thrashing, head raising, etc. could be from her being uncomfortable....and having difficulty breathing, but I would be worried about breaking an egg or causing other problems by massaging her....especially if you don't have any experience with it.

As I already stated the previous clutch I counted about 62 eggs, the first was smaller - about 36.

Also as I stated above already, I'm using ReptiCal and Total Bites as supplements... the ReptiCal the vet suggested mixing with water because she isn't eating but we did prescribed oral calcium and injections instead. She gets these supplements with her feeding every other day, but since she's stopped eating - the calcium has stayed more or less the same. As for the supplements she would normally get from the total bites, she hasn't had much lately because she wont eat on her own. The vet did not want to force her to eat supplemented baby food or "Carnivore Care" (a powder you mix with water and feed with a syringe) because of the recent worry with her tongue and the possibility that she may choke. But we have an appointment tomorrow to see if we can try this...

And again, as I said above, she is still digging (she was diging today, in fact) and she did go throught the egg laying process before, properly and with no issues.

As for when she layed the other clutches - they've been about 11 months apart almost to the day. And no she has never been mated. I do not own another Chameleon and do not know of anyone who has one willing to mate (I've checked around...)

The clutch of 62 eggs is much larger than I like to see a veiled chameleon lay and laying such large clutches may lead to an early death as well as egglaying issues. I've found that cutting down on the feeding keeps the clutches small (usually around 2 dozen) in my veileds.

How do you give her the total bites?? Do you feed them to the insects?

Glad to hear that she is still digging!

I only asked about the mating to be able to better determine when she should have been laying eggs. Since she is still digging, hopefully she will lay them and all will be well. Good luck!

Thank you kindly for the vote of confidence... unfortunately when I took her to the vet they said that some of the eggs feel as though they are fusing together and she would never be able to push them out. So they suggested a C-Section. I reluctantly said OK - anything to help, I suppose...

However, when they tried to put the breathing tube in her throat as they were about to start to operation, they hit a blockage in her throat and couldn't get the tube in. They investigated and found a large mass of scar tissue and a fungal growth. This is likely why she was throwing her head back like she was, not because of the eggs (or not only, at least...).

Anti-fungal medication would likely kill her faster because she is so weak from carrying the eggs and not eating and drinking enough, and they cannot proceed with the C-section with the growth in her throat. She will probably be leaving me soon... I am absolutely devastated... my eyes hurt from crying... but I'm glad she's home for now... she seems comfortable...

Anyway... thank you again...

Sorry to hear that.

Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear that!

Good luck must be shining down on us today...

Just got a call from the Vet. They took a closer look at the fungal bacteria in her throat (from a swab they took yesterday)... They think that it might be possible for her to fight this thing with the medication. So we're gonna give it a try.

I mean, her colour is good, she's fairly alert still, she still has an iron grip and she's still showing signs of trying to lay the eggs herself.

So with any luck we might A) get rid of the fungus so she can eat and drink a bit more and lay the eggs herself or, .. B) get rid of the fungus enough that they would be able to get the breathing tube down her throat in order to go through with the c-section.

I prefer option A of course, but if she still cant lay them we may have to continue with the operation...

Fingers Crossed!!!

So at this point does the vet think a shot of oxytocin would be of no help? Seems like it might relax her enough to just drop em and since they arent fertile who cares as long as they are expelled. I think I'd try a shot before going the surgical route. That is if the eggs arent fused? But I'd think an x-ray would show if that had occurred. Jmo. Good luck with her whatever route you choose.

Best of luck!

Yeah, I suggested oxytocin to the vet too but on the x-ray they took it appears that there is a very large number of eggs all in one place and if you feel her belly in that spot, it just feels hard and immoveable (not like eggs at all... but they definitely are eggs... just clustered and stuck...) Also, she doesn't seem to have a problem with pushing or anything. She has been digging and pushing, trying so hard to lay them, but I just think she's a bit to weak from the infection... but who knows! Maybe oxytocin might help after the infection has cleared.

They are making a suspension of an anti-fungal drug that is at the right strength for her and I've got to pick it up either tonight or tomorrow.. but our hope is that it might improver her condition enough that she can lay the eggs herself if there are infact no real problems in her tummy... guess we'll have to cross that bridge when we get to it though..

I feel terrible though - I thought that I saw some dirt in her mouth (because she's a big goof and has gotten dirt in her mouth while digging before...), but I was actually looking at fungus on the roof of her mouth... If only I had said something maybe we wouldn't be here now...

Either way, I'm glad we have options other than euthanasia. Thank Goodness!!

And thank you all for the support and kind words - it means a lot to us! Will keep you posted!

Dont beat yourself up. Your obviously doing all you can for her. I hope she makes a full recovery on the throat issue and is able to lay them without surgery.

Hello all,

Just an update... Izzy seemed to be doing fine - she started eating solid food again and was drinking on her own. She was taken off the anti-fungal meds, but was still on a low dose of antibiotics. I thought we were gonna make it through - she was improving.

But sadly, last night around 12:30 AM she passed away.

She seemed to be having trouble breathing and getting comfortable in "bed" and wasn't sleeping. So I went to check on her and she was gone...

Just wanted to say thank you to all of you who passed along good advice and kind words. She will be missed. </3