*Warning: Graphic photos* Need Help! Don't know What to Do!

[szpond]

I see, I appreciate the resources to check out. I was completely misinformed. No, I've never done it (never had the need to euthanize whatsoever).

 

[Carlton]

I see, I appreciate the resources to check out. I was completely misinformed. No, I've never done it (never had the need to euthanize whatsoever).

You've been lucky No one wants to be faced with this. I've had to deal with badly injured birds, small mammals (man I HATE loose cats!), my own herps and frogs before and I am a 30 minute air taxi flight from any vet. It's never easy. Frogs have one other option...coat them with something containing a pain reliever like Bactine, Orajel, etc. They can absorb the anesthetic through their skin fairly fast.

 

[dlegare]

NO NO NO NO FREEZER!!! This is NOT humane or quick! Why do people keep suggesting it? Please educate yourselves about humane euthanasia for reptiles.

Not that I want to get into a huge debate on humane euthanasia but... The freezer method is very humane. In the dark container they will go to sleep and the temperature will drop. As the temperature drops they will enter a stupor and the metabolism will slow. Eventually they will pass on. Essentially they will die in there sleep.

And believe me its very much more humane than what that poor little animal is going thru at this moment.

Best possible solution would not to have allowed it to happen in the first place.

Now all we can do is help to alleviate the poor guys suffering. And believe me he is suffering.

 

[dlegare]

The problem is, ice crystals start forming in the tissue and bursting cell walls before the cham is totally unaware or unfeeling. This is painful and not as quick as we might think, given a herp's resistance to torpor.

I know it does sound awful, but the quickest way to dispatch a small animal like this at home without access to a vet is to crush the brain and spinal column. For a herp that becomes slowly less agitated when cooled down I wrap it loosely in a paper towel, put it in a dark box in a cool place until it goes into sleep mode (no light, temp drop). Then crush it.

Again getting into an ethical debate. The cham will be totally unaware of the formation of ice crystals in his tissue. By the time ice crystals start forming the metabolism will be so slow as to be essentially dead. And there will be no conscious sensation of pain at that time.

Paralleling this with someone experiencing frost-bite is totally absurd. We are completely different organisms. I will add however that when a human becomes hypothermic we loose our peripheral sensation. If we maintain core temperature and experience frost-bite then yes the pain is excruciating.

When you use the freezer method of euthanasia you don't do it for anything larger than say a pound or so. That way the body temperature drops and nervous sensation ceases. Well before ice starts forming the animal will die of severely depressed metabolism. Like I said earlier, they essentially die in there sleep.

 

[Barb]

So sorry for the little guy. I hope you ream your friend a good one. We don't need people like that as pet owners.

 

[StreetMoggy]

there has to be a 24 hour vet somewhere, even if it's far, you could call them and see what they say to do. This is so sad I don't know what I would do in your shoes.

 

[Olimpia]

It is an ethical debate, there's a reason you don't freeze euthanize animals in vet clinics or research labs - it is considered neither humane nor quick. There's not an animal I've ever had to kill in a lab that we put in the freezer, it's always gas chamber for mammals or brain destruction for non-mammals.

If you don't believe me: http://www.ahc.umn.edu/rar/euthanasia.html

Always UNACCEPTABLE in awake animals: KCl, MgSO4, strychnine, neuromuscular blocking agents, exsanquination, air embolism, freezing and chloroform (due to its hazards to personnel).

Even in lab animals they would only do freezing if the animal were previously anesthetized chemically. And we know lab animals aren't treated spectacularly but freezing is not listed as an appropriate way to euthanize an animal for a reason.

 

[szpond]

Well I'm sure we all hold the same knee-jerk opinion: Vet. Now. No questions, vet first. Always speak to a vet beforehand.


No need to argue it out, there are multiple webpages that I've been roaming around recently (also the one posted earlier) and it is definitely a worthwhile read, for I had no idea that I was informed something so incorrect.

Definitely recommend that we all read these documents.

 

[szpond]

It's not an ethical debate, there's a reason you don't freeze euthanize animals in vet clinics or research labs. There's not an animal I've ever had to kill in a lab that we put in the freezer, it's always gas chamber for mammals or brain destruction for non-mammals.

Do you recommend the freezing method in this case if the animal's owner cannot get to a vet, and refuses to break the skull? Or would you say to keep the animal as comfortable as possible through the night in a "quarantine" setting where there is no existing bacteria? On a towel?

 

[Olimpia]

I just think freezing is only popular because it's detached. It's a lot easier on someone to put an animal in a box, put it in the freezer, and leave the room for a few hours. I suppose that if you didn't have the stomach to pith the brain or crush the head it's better than nothing, but it's definitely not my favorite option.

If he wanted to try to try to save it I would keep him in a clean, dry box but I can't know if he'll be able to make it til morning. That arm is pretty horrific.

 

[szpond]

I just think freezing is only popular because it's detached. It's a lot easier on someone to put an animal in a box, put it in the freezer, and leave the room for a few hours. I suppose that if you didn't have the stomach to pith the brain or crush the head it's better than nothing, but it's definitely not my favorite option.

If he wanted to try to try to save it I would keep him in a clean, dry box but I can't know if he'll be able to make it til morning. That arm is pretty horrific.

Agreed. Given the owner's neglect to lead to something like this, it doesn't seem likely they would put forth the effort to care for such a handicapped cham, even if the baby could survive...it's a shame. The neglect shown is why I worry that they wouldn't go to the vet, and would want to do that "detached" method, as you say. You're definitely correct there.

I hope we get an update on this cham

 

[Killer Chams]

here is a 24hr vet in lodi.

Richard Turner
Arbor Pet Clinic
819 North Sacramento Road
Lodi, CA 95240
209-334-4257

 

[Nemesis]

Dear god that poor little dude.. And here I'm worried sick because my chameleon is gaping while basking.. I understand how the owner wouldn't want to crush the skull and i also agree with Olimpia about freezing the animal. Both ways would make you feel horrible. But if it came down to it god forbid.. you can put it in a bag and slam it against the wall as hard as you can i believe that is just a quick as a brick over the head

 

[dlegare]

I just think freezing is only popular because it's detached. It's a lot easier on someone to put an animal in a box, put it in the freezer, and leave the room for a few hours. I suppose that if you didn't have the stomach to pith the brain or crush the head it's better than nothing, but it's definitely not my favorite option.

If he wanted to try to try to save it I would keep him in a clean, dry box but I can't know if he'll be able to make it til morning. That arm is pretty horrific.

Yes pithing and crushing are a much more humane choice for someone who can do the process quickly and properly. However pithing isn't the easiest process especially for someone who knows the procedure and has a good understanding of reptile anatomy. Crushing would be good too but if you're squeamish and don't do it correctly or quickly the animal will suffer.

And the poor thing is definitely suffering at this very moment.

Whatever is done must be done quickly!

Lets not have this poor animal suffer any longer than absolutely necessary.

 

[SaintJimmy]

Oh my god.. Whatever happens, good luck..

Poor little guy.. Makes me want to cry.. I have seen animals die and had some die in my hands, but oh my god please put him out of his misery.. That is so terrible.

Why would your friend leave him somewhere where a cat of all things could get to him? I have a cat, but I never let her near my chameleon now.. Did your friend even have a cage?

Oh my gosh.. Just.. Please help that thing.

 

[Zaid323]

Oh my god.. Whatever happens, good luck..

Poor little guy.. Makes me want to cry.. I have seen animals die and had some die in my hands, but oh my god please put him out of his misery.. That is so terrible.

Why would your friend leave him somewhere where a cat of all things could get to him? I have a cat, but I never let her near my chameleon now.. Did your friend even have a cage?

Oh my gosh.. Just.. Please help that thing.

Guys, Thanks for all your consideration and input and everything. I really truly appreciate this. However, I just got back from the vet and well he's gone. He couldn't make it. Oh man, It's just heart breaking to see him lying there. Thanks you guys really.

 

[SaintJimmy]

Guys, Thanks for all your consideration and input and everything. I really truly appreciate this. However, I just got back from the vet and well he's gone. He couldn't make it. Oh man, It's just heart breaking to see him lying there. Thanks you guys really.

I'm so sorry.

At least he didn't have to go through agonizing pain anymore. Dang..

Chameleon heaven. Poor little guy..

 

[Hakai]

Damn, I'm a pretty hardened person, but that's the closest I've come to crying in years. However, I'm glad he is out of his misery. Advise your friend not to get another cham, or any other small pet for that matter, unless he has a severe change of mind and heart.

 

[Ahtee]

tell your friend he killed a life, tell him to go repent.

 

[Nemesis]

be at peace son of zaid