I have a jacksons male that got a tgi it started in a Thursday, so Friday I gently massaged all the thick buggery puss out with a cleaning of diluted betodine the 6 days later I got him to s vet that did the same thing along with oral baytril antibiotics, the left eye is also swollen shut, 6 days of treatment with baytril and no real signs of improvement, any suggestions ?
Temporal gland infection
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Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
It may take longer than 6 days to see a lot of improvement but it does sound as if the infection is spreading. Chams take things slowly. However, the particular bacteria causing the infection may not be sensitive to Baytril. Did the vet do a sensitivity culture before prescribing Baytril?
Chameleonsthecoolest
New Member
Be careful... I had a temporal gland infection on my jacksons and the vet gave me baytril but it didn't work and I believe the baytril is what killed him. Vets tend to hand that out for everything
Lovereps
Avid Member
At the very least, the vet should be consulted and he/she will most likely change meds, since it appears that the Baytril is not helping.
I've had better success when the eye is involved by using antibiotic eyedrops, in addition to an oral or injectable antibiotic.
For temporal gland problems, I also like using diluted chlorhexidine on a q tip to gently clean the gland daily until the infection heals.
As Carlton said, cham healing can be slow but the infection should not be spreading after antibiotics have been given for a few days.
JaxyGirl
Avid Member
I've been reading up a lot lately about infections and other diseases that occur in chameleons includung MBD, Mouth Rot (stomatitis) and temporal gland disease.
What I have learned is the one thing they all have in common is Vitamin A deficiency (hypovitamiosis A)
I honestly belive that if a chameleon has a vitamin A deficiency (Hypovitaminosis A) or any vitamin deficiency for that matter, the symptoms are going to return after the treatment because the real underlying issues of diet hasn't been addressed. Here are some good articles.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027
http://www.vetsonline.com/publicati...art-two-approaching-disease-difficulties.html
Vitamin A deficiency has been listed as a predisposing factor to femoral pore impaction and infection. It has also been implicated in temporal gland disease in chameleons. The affected gland presents as a swelling on the side of the face, with brown discharge evident at the mouth’s commissure. In most cases, a Volkmann spoon can be used to remove the secretion without the need for a surgical approach. The gland lumen should be flushed with warmed saline. Infection may lead to some swelling around the orbit and the eye may be closed. Periorbital infections can occur independently or may be associated with this condition.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027
What I have learned is the one thing they all have in common is Vitamin A deficiency (hypovitamiosis A)
I honestly belive that if a chameleon has a vitamin A deficiency (Hypovitaminosis A) or any vitamin deficiency for that matter, the symptoms are going to return after the treatment because the real underlying issues of diet hasn't been addressed. Here are some good articles.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027
http://www.vetsonline.com/publicati...art-two-approaching-disease-difficulties.html
Vitamin A deficiency has been listed as a predisposing factor to femoral pore impaction and infection. It has also been implicated in temporal gland disease in chameleons. The affected gland presents as a swelling on the side of the face, with brown discharge evident at the mouth’s commissure. In most cases, a Volkmann spoon can be used to remove the secretion without the need for a surgical approach. The gland lumen should be flushed with warmed saline. Infection may lead to some swelling around the orbit and the eye may be closed. Periorbital infections can occur independently or may be associated with this condition.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027
JoeVet
Established Member
Jaxygirl is right. Vitamin A deficiency causes loss of normal gland function. Those glands can be temporal glands or tear glands in the eyes. A lack of vitamin A causes glandular epithelium to become dyplastic and it becomes squamous epithelium instead of glandular epithelium. I know there is hesitation to use pre-formed vitamin A but there has never been a report in a refereed journal about hypervitaminosis A. Hypovitaminosis A is common.
JaxyGirl
Avid Member
I think at this point you might need a high concentrate vitamin A supplement.
This is something else I found here's the complete article. http://exoticpets.about.com/od/reptilehealth/p/vitadefrept.htm
"There is some controversy over the best form of vitamin A to provide. Because too much Vitamin A is also harmful, some experts recommend using a supplement with beta carotene rather than vitamin A; the body then converts beta carotene to the needed vitamin A. However, some animals are not able to make this conversion. For example, there is some evidence that chameleons are in this group so they can suffer vitamin A deficiency even if receiving a supplement. Choosing a supplement with vitamin A is likely fine as long as you do not overdo it"
ChamieNewbie
New Member
So what is the best way to make sure they are getting adequate vit A. I'm just curious so I can learn everything possible and avoid this issue in the future.
Honestly I'm getting a little beyond frustrated with this issue so I am going to get in touch with the local zoo and see if they will take traction in and let their vet look at him and possibly use him in an exhibit, I just don't have that type of ambition, the chameleon is my brothers and he lost interest a long while back, and my reptile days have long been over.
Thanks all for the replies
Thanks all for the replies
Lovereps
Avid Member
The absolute best way to avoid nutritional deficiencies is to feed the feeders a nutritious diet, supplement on a recommended schedule (see Resources tab for species caresheets with supplement info) and to make sure that your chameleon has all that he physically and psychologically needs.
Nutritious feeders are made that way by feeding them fresh fruits and vegetables, grains, etc.
The majority of commercial gutloads/insect diets tends to be inferior.
Don't overlook the importance of proper temperatures for your chameleon.
Temps too low can lead to nutritional deficiencies and other health problems, such as low immune system function.
Your cham needs to be at a certain temperature in order to utilize the vitamins and minerals that food provides, since his body can't make its own heat.
(Temps too high also cause serious health issues or death.)
As good as vitamin and mineral supplements are, you don't want to overdo them.
Too much is at least as bad as too little is.
Here's the Veiled chameleon caresheet for you https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/
I saw another post of yours where you mention owning bearded dragons (my favorite tough as nails kind of lizard).
Please be sure to always wash your hands after handling beardies before handling your cham or his enclosure.
Don't underestimate the importance of meeting chams' psychological needs .
It is very important to ensure that your chams can't see the beardies (or each other) from their enclosure.
Beardies are predators, chams are prey.
Being able to see that they're near the beardies will stress your chams.
Being able to see each other stresses chams, too, as they are very territorial, with the exception of a few types of chams.
I recall a few years back when a fellow chamkeeper couldn't figure out why his cham had stopped eating.
He posted pics of the cham setup and it was noted that the cham enclosure was next to his beardie's enclosure.
After relocating his cham away from the beardie, the cham resumed eating.
A visual barrier works just as well, if they need to be located in the same room.
Glad to see a new cham owner asking questions.
Especially when it comes to chams, an ounce of prevention is definitely worth a pound of cure.
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
I doubt the zoo will take him in (but it never hurts to ask)...zoos get a lot of requests from frustrated pet owners trying to give exotics away. See if there's a herpetological society in your area or ask the vet if they know of a herp keeper who might take him. You also might put a post in the forum classifieds to see if someone could rescue him.
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
VERY interesting! I hope we can get to the bottom of jacksons' temporal gland issues! They are common enough that it probably is nutritional, but exactly what's missing hasn't been clear. With our attempts to avoid oversupplementing montane species we could well be creating this painful tendency. I have also read and tried upping the vitamin C content of my montane species' feeders but don't have any real data to show results. Probably doesn't hurt.
ChamieNewbie
New Member
Thank you for the information. I would always rather ask and prevent an issue than ask to fix an issue if it's possible. I know sometimes that's not possible. I gutload our crickets on cricket crack, oranges, greens, carrots, other veggies and fruits. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. As for them seeing each other all 3 lizards are in completely different rooms. There is no way they can see each other. I do not want to stress any of them out. My beardie is the only one in a high traffic part of the house so he sees everything. He doesn't like being away from everything that's what stresses/depressed him.
Lovereps
Avid Member
Kudos to you!
You're on the right track with things for sure!
As for the temporal gland infections, I agree that nutritional deficiencies can cause infections and other problems but I think that we shouldn't discount the fact that secretory glands can and will get clogged (think acne, for example), as well as the fact that eating live insects leaves chams open to getting bites and injuries from hard skeletal parts, which can then lead to a secondary problem--infection.
Proper husbandry, continuing to learn about chameleons' health and signs of illness, combined with vigilance to catch any problems early on will all serve any cham owner well.
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