So I contacted Petsmart's corporate office...

Yesterday I was picking up some small cricks for my little guy and as usual stopped by the reptile enclosures. Most, if not all, of you are aware of the conditions these chameleons stay in before being purchased. The coconut husk fiber substrate and water from a dish inside a tiny glass enclosure. So I see a very stress veiled with this substrate covering most of his body. He zapped up a cricket in front of me and some of this substrate along with it. It upset me to the point that I had to do something.

Instead of talking to the store manager, I called corporate and made them aware of the dangers they are putting these chameleons in, in hopes of making a company-wide changed to these conditions. I was very respectful in letting them know what problems can arise with these conditions. I told him my main goal was to get the substrate off of the floor and to give regular mistings in place of the water dish. I mentioned other problems with the setup but I thought this would be a good starting point that could end up saving them money and also possibly saving the lives of a few chameleons.

He assured me that this would be passed onto the corporate managers and that they would get back to me within 3-5 business days as a follow up that I requested. I will certainly keep all of you updated. If I do see a change I might then push for proper care instructions to be given to new chameleon owners. Or at the very least have them directed to our forums so that they can receive the proper care information for their chameleons. I don't know if anyone has tried this before but at the very least, one more voice can't hurt.

And please don't act like I did something great because I know that it is absolutely nothing compared to what this forum has done for the chameleon keeping and preservation world. So I have all of you to thank instead. You are all to be thanked for what you do for this chameleon community. Even the newcomers who come here looking for answers are making a dramatic change for these chameleons by just learning and hopefully passing on their knowledge to future chameleon owners. So once again. I want to thank YOU. I hope these forums are here to stay forever. May we all do our part for these beautiful creatures.

Very nice hopefully it works out

Was in the one around me yesterday and they had a small veiled and a Jackson's. The veiled didn't look too bad but the Jackson's sat with mouth hanging open the whole time we were there. The veiled couldn't have been more than a couple months old he was tiny.

good for you for speaking up.i have done it many times.if only they would listen and take better care of there animals.we can only voice our opinion and hope it gets heard

FrankTheTank said:

... I told him my main goal was to get the substrate off of the floor and to give regular mistings in place of the water dish. ...

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Hey just so you know they do mist the chameleons at least twice a day at petsmart, I am not defending the rest of their lack of care but i said the same thing about the water bowl to them and their response was very political which was we do mist and understand that chameleons need a moving water source, however if they did not provide a water bowl in the enclosure than they would receive a million complaints from the general population that does not understand chameleons on how cruel they are for not providing water when the enclosure is dry between misting sessions.

Although I applaud your efforts, as I posted on this topic a couple of ,on this ago, there are a couple of things you need to realize.

As the last poster alluded to, they would recieve a significant more amount of concerns if the cages did not have fresh water available in bowls from the general public. as far as substrate is involved, same thing. Aesthetics come into play here. The public would be outraged in what would appear to them to be sterile, lifeless cages that we consider proper husbandry.

Do the big boxes care about the lives of the animals, I am sure they do to some extent, but the fact is that live animals account for 4% of total sales. Not exactly a motivator to change things to help the bottom line.

To make the changes you propose would cost 100's of thousands of dollars In Training and physical changes not to mention Cost structure changes from the vendors that supply those cages 'decorations'. To that point, saving the life of the $8 veiled is probably not a priority in comparison.

Finally, and most importantly, if you really care about this situation, you will stop shopping there for crickets and all else. They make more money on selling you crickets than they ever will in the chameleon itself.

I find it laughable all of these posts where people common here indignant about the care of the animals but yet I will give my money to support them.

You want to stop the behavior, stop supporting them.

i agree to stop shopping there and supporting them thats why i buy all my food from just live food breeders.

nj011908 said:

Hey just so you know they do mist the chameleons at least twice a day at petsmart, I am not defending the rest of their lack of care but i said the same thing about the water bowl to them and their response was very political which was we do mist and understand that chameleons need a moving water source, however if they did not provide a water bowl in the enclosure than they would receive a million complaints from the general population that does not understand chameleons on how cruel they are for not providing water when the enclosure is dry between misting sessions.

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Well I told him specifically the water bowls were fine as long as they changed it out regularly and misted as well. That's good to know that they do mist though. But the substrate was my main concern that I emphasized to him.

Dear Petsmart's corporate office;

Im writing to inform you i found several problems with the lizards, and the rango's in-particular. The small green rangos had no bedding to hid in, no water bowl to drink out of, and it was very humid in the tank and it had to drink off the leaves, the poor things. Also i noticed no one was petting or playing with the rangos like they were the puppies and baby birdies to keep them tame and happy.

Signed, joe public

nightanole said:

Dear Petsmart's corporate office;

Im writing to inform you i found several problems with the lizards, and the rango's in-particular. The small green rangos had no bedding to hid in, no water bowl to drink out of, and it was very humid in the tank and it had to drink off the leaves, the poor things. Also i noticed no one was petting or playing with the rangos like they were the puppies and baby birdies to keep them tame and happy.

Signed, joe public

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Sadly, fairly accurate.

They can put astro or some synthetic bedding down that would be just as easily removed and cleaned as it would to changed out the substrate they use. They can just as easily blow off the whiners that are upset and don't know any better as they can people like me so why not do it the right way? Like I said the water bowls are fine as long as they get misted. The substrate was my main concern. I hardly talked about the water problem.

nightanole said:

Dear Petsmart's corporate office;

Im writing to inform you i found several problems with the lizards, and the rango's in-particular. The small green rangos had no bedding to hid in, no water bowl to drink out of, and it was very humid in the tank and it had to drink off the leaves, the poor things. Also i noticed no one was petting or playing with the rangos like they were the puppies and baby birdies to keep them tame and happy.

Signed, joe public

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FrankTheTank said:

They can put astro or some synthetic bedding down that would be just as easily removed and cleaned as it would to changed out the substrate they use. They can just as easily blow off the whiners that are upset and don't know any better as they can people like me so why not do it the right way? Like I said the water bowls are fine as long as they get misted. The substrate was my main concern. I hardly talked about the water problem.

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Thats part of my point. They can blow you (us) off as we represent likely .01% of the hobby. That represents perhaps 100 complaints of this manner a year as opposed to 10's of thousands of those 'others'.

Again, I appreciate what you are trying to do, but you just have to understand that what they are currently doing is what is best for the company and the bottom line and these are public companies that have shareholders that are interested in just that.

Here is the worst part if you want to get riled up. If it wasn't for the two big boxes selling these animals, our hobby would likely die. Where do you think all of these baby chameleons that breeders raise go to? ANd if the breeders didn't have an outlet to move the 80% of babies that they dont sell to hobbyist directly, there would be very little incentive to produce at any high level.

I am probably getting a little politically incorrect at this point however......

And as far as not shopping there, how will that change the way these chameleons are treated? I get the whole stuff it to the man concept but they aren't going anywhere. I don't want a large order of crickets bc they smell so bad. I have been looking into getting other feeders like silkworms but I just haven't ordered any yet. That's why I buy them from there for now. I normally buy from my local pet store but they don't carry feeders. So please don't lecture me on where I purchase my feeders just because I don't like how they keep some of there animals. At least I am trying to make a change for the better...

Saldarya said:

Thats part of my point. They can blow you (us) off as we represent likely .01% of the hobby. That represents perhaps 100 complaints of this manner a year as opposed to 10's of thousands of those 'others'.

Again, I appreciate what you are trying to do, but you just have to understand that what they are currently doing is what is best for the company and the bottom line and these are public companies that have shareholders that are interested in just that.

Here is the worst part if you want to get riled up. If it wasn't for the two big boxes selling these animals, our hobby would likely die. Where do you think all of these baby chameleons that breeders raise go to? ANd if the breeders didn't have an outlet to move the 80% of babies that they dont sell to hobbyist directly, there would be very little incentive to produce at any high level.

I am probably getting a little politically incorrect at this point however......

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I don't think chameleons make up even .1% of their total sales so I doubt their shareholders will care if they remove the substrate from the chameleon tanks. And I also didn't say I wanted them to stop selling them.

As long as you shop there, you by default are supporting them and all thier practices. That is why.

Secondly, I thought I was pretty clear that I appreciate your efforts and think your concerns are valid. I simply thought I would share some perspective as to the whole picture.

Not sure why you would be defensive. Thought it was a decent lil conversation going. Don't worry, I'm done....

Saldarya said:

As long as you shop there, you by default are supporting them and all thier practices. That is why.

Secondly, I thought I was pretty clear that I appreciate your efforts and think your concerns are valid. I simply thought I would share some perspective as to the whole picture.

Not sure why you would be defensive. Thought it was a decent lil conversation going. Don't worry, I'm done....

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Good cause you are kind of off, but I think it's because your digging too deep! Besides are you going to stand on the corner in Frederick Maryland and sell me crickets in the winter months when I cant get any delivered to my house!!!

nightanole said:

Dear Petsmart's corporate office;

Im writing to inform you i found several problems with the lizards, and the rango's in-particular. The small green rangos had no bedding to hid in, no water bowl to drink out of, and it was very humid in the tank and it had to drink off the leaves, the poor things. Also i noticed no one was petting or playing with the rangos like they were the puppies and baby birdies to keep them tame and happy.

Signed, joe public

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Even though I find your comment to be what would take place doesn't anyone feel that as an establishment who is in the business of selling animals is obligated to not only care for them, but make sure the people buying them know as well. So what if they receive these letters, it's not only their obligation, but their responsibility to take care of these animals. and if that means educating some ill informed people who think they know more than they do than so be it.

brownie64 said:

Even though I find your comment to be what would take place doesn't anyone feel that as an establishment who is in the business of selling animals is obligated to not only care for them, but make sure the people buying them know as well. So what if they receive these letters, it's not only their obligation, but their responsibility to take care of these animals. and if that means educating some ill informed people who think they know more than they do than so be it.

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You would think that an establishment meant to sell animals would have extremely healthy and posh pets out on display in order to have customers buy the same. I dont know why this doesnt happen in the lizard trade. They are there to sell you the lights/cages/misters/food, and the loss leader lizard. I know if i was selling loss leaders id be having them in $1500 setups with kits from several hundred to $1500 on display right next to them

Saldarya said:

As long as you shop there, you by default are supporting them and all thier practices. That is why.



Secondly, I thought I was pretty clear that I appreciate your efforts and think your concerns are valid. I simply thought I would share some perspective as to the whole picture.



Not sure why you would be defensive. Thought it was a decent lil conversation going. Don't worry, I'm done....

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I agree with this. By shopping at an establishment, you are supporting the establishment. That's all there is to it. If you can't change what they are doing then stop supporting what they are doing, that's all the change you can make.
He wasn't saying you are wrong by telling them what they need to change. On a strictly numbers scale, Petsmart would rather deal with the smaller percentage of complaints which happens to be the more competent percentage. Just the way big business operates.
It's not difficult to buy crickets in bulk and keep them alive over the winter months, look into it I think you will be surprised at how much cheaper it will be as well.
This forum has a lot of sponsors that are here for a reason, use them.
Everyone here only wishes the best for the chameleons and hopes they can be treated fairly but the reality is it's more than likely not going to happen. We are all on the same team though.

I thought I was pretty clear that I don't want a large bulk order of crickets kept in my house. The smell is awful and my wife doesn't like them. I have a large colony of Dubai roaches that I obviously didn't get from petsmart. My reason for shopping there is just and I will continue to get things there when I need them, and when it is the only alternative I have around here. That doesn't mean I support everything they are about. I don't like a lot of walmarts practices but do you think I am going to stop shopping there? No I am not. But if I felt strongly about something I thought they could easily change then I would go through the proper channels and ask for a change. I don't see what is so wrong with shopping at the only place I can go to to get quiet crickets in smaller quantities. I stand by everything I have said and done and I wouldn't change one thing. If you want to call me defensive for standing up for something then so be it. I wasn't attacking you by any means nor do I think you were attacking me. I am a fairly intelligent and reasonable person and I try to approach everything with an open mind. I'm sorry if I offended you with what I said. But my point is...not shopping there won't change one thing.