Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screened 18"x18"x36"
Lighting - Reptisun UVB (changed every 4 mo) and Reptisun heat bulb. He's on a 13on/11off cycle (due to my work schedule)
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Highest = 95, lowest = 70. Measured with electronic thermometer probe.
Humidity - about 70% (increase during misting) maintained with a fogger and mister. Measured with an electronic gage.
Plants - Only fake.
Location - In my living room. basically gets no traffic. I live alone and am gone most of the day working. cage sits about 2 feet off the ground, but there are no other animals to pester him.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon -Male Veiled. Will be 3 in November. I have owned him since he was about 2 months old.
Handling - If he is healthy I never handle him. When he is sick (see below) unfortunately he requires handling on up to a daily basis. (again see below)
Feeding - He gets crickets, wax worms and silk worms. Worms are gut loaded with the mulberry stuff, crickets get a mixture of veggies and fish food (from a recipe that I got).
Supplements - He gets reptical supps 1x per week. Vet said that since he's full grown he doesn't need much and we monitor his calcium very closely. (again see below)
Watering - I use both a spray bottle and do it by hand and a fogger/mister. Occasionally I see him drink when he is healthy.
Fecal Description - Urates are white and runny (NO yellow), fecal matter brown and formed. Has been tested negative for parasites.
History - "Hermie" has a long medical history. To try and be brief he developed MBD a few months after I got him (despite being properly supplemented and having a UVB light) and broke all four legs. He was casted, and had a sling for one and survived. It sounds stupid to most people and I take a lot of criticism for it, but with the help of my vet we decided that if he kept fighting we would too. He was kept in a smallish enclosure with no climbing tools and padded ground, ate mashed up food fed to him four times a day (would open his mouth like a baby bird when he wanted to be fed... he has "favorites" as far as baby food goes as well). He SURVIVED and his bones healed (at the time of Diagnosis his bones looked like cartiledge on xray and you could only see his spine ... his bones now have NORMAL density). He was on a high dose calcium supplement and injections to keep him from reabsorbing more bone. From all of this he has had to be handled extensively. When he was healthy I STOPPED handling altogether. He has had more issues along the way including two kidney infections (responded to antibiotic injections and subq fluids) and one impaction (responded to mineral oil and subq fluids). He also developed a problem where patches of his skin on his tail and joints were turning grey and he could no longer change their color (he was not just shedding)... at this time his WBC was high and vet recommended trying some antibiotics which stopped the spread of this.

Current Problem: Recently he stopped eating again and was dark colored in his cage. I took him to his veterinarian and we did blood work on him. His calciumhosphorus levels are both high but the concerning part is that they are in a 1:1 ratio, which the vet says signals a kidney problem to him. His cholesteral is high too (due to worms most likely which I immediately cut completely out of his diet but he refuses to eat crickets when he is not feeling well) but this is not as big of a concern. His RBC are slightly low and his WBC slightly high. Vet thinks either kidney infection or kidney failure but says that he does not act sick enough for failure at this time. This is also consistent with his previous kidney infections. We put him on Subq fluids (3 ml 2x daily) and antibiotics (pipericillin 1x daily) and carnivore care and/or baby food for nutrition (he will not catch his own food right now). Unfortunately he has remained dark (which I am taking to mean stressed/not feeling good ... this could be chalked up simply to the handling BUT he has been handled extensively before when ill and this has never been the case) but active. He moves around in his cage and after his injections I let him loose in my apartment (something he enjoys) and he goes and climbs all over the place). He earned the nick name "houdini hermie" because he was known for escaping out of his cage and ending up ALL over the place. Previously he was eating his baby food and/or carnivore care willingly (up to 6 mls of it a day!) but lately has not been as interested (though still as active). He has not lost weight. I'm looking for suggestions for the little guy. I will do whatever I can for him. He is still on antibiotics for a few more days. We had to cut down his subq fluids because he wasn't absorbing all of them and they were just causing edema so after a few days off of them he now only gets 1.5 mls 1x daily.

Thanks, Jamie and Hermie
p/s -- I attahed a picture of him POST MBD but prior to his latest health issue. Hopefully it came through.

Attached Images

Hermie.jpg (254.3 KB, 51 views)

Where do you live? Maybe you could try a different vet. He sure it a cute little guy. I will pray for his recovery. Jann

__________________
1.1 Veiled Chameleons & 1 Mixed Breed Dog

Howdy Jamie,

Don't toss (unless it's in my direction ) those 4 month-old Reptisun tubes. You'll find that the Reptisun tubes do very well easily out to a year. A 1 year-old Reptisun will have the same uW/cm2 energy level reaching your chameleon as a ~1 week-old tube if you move it 2 inches closer. See graph 7 at: http://www.uvguide.co.uk/fluorescenttuberesults.htm

Depending on how much fish food is in your gutload, you may want to reduce or remove it from your recipe and change it out with something else. Try a search of this site about the issues with fish food .

If your vet thinks it is still necessary to reduce the blood phosphorus level then mention that many vets (and reptile medical books) suggest giving about 0.1cc of Mylanta for an adult Veiled or Panther be given daily for a couple of weeks. Mylanta binds-up phosphorus and allows it to harmlessly pass out of their system. I was able to flip a 1:2 back to a 2:1 . It is still quite possible that kidney failure is all or part of the problem .

__________________
See Ya,

Dave Weldon
Panther & Veileds

Book Collection:
"Reptile Medicine and Surgery" 2nd ed. By Mader
"Chameleons - Their Care and Breeding" By Linda J. Davison
"Chameleons - Nature's Hidden Jewels" 2nd Ed. By Petr Necas
"The Panther Chameleon: Color Variation, Natural History, Conservation and Captive Management" By Gary W. Ferguson...
"Thoughts for Food" 3rd Ed. Edited by Ardi Abate
"Understanding Reptile Parasites" By Roger J. Klingenberg D.V.M.

You said you are giving him reptical supplements once a week...do you mean Rep-Cal? What do the supplements contain in the way of calcium, phosphorous, D3 and prEformed vitamin A?

Look at ALL the things you are feeding to the insects for those 4 nutrients...look at what you are feeding the chameleon (carnivore care, etc.) for each of those things. These things need to be in balance or it creates problems. I think there may be an imbalance in these four nutrients that may be part of his problem.

Antibiotics are hard on the kidneys...so I hope you have been keeping him very well hydrated whenever he is on them?

I would think the high protein fish food could possibly be causing some problems, especially with the kidneys. High protein diets can be hard on the filtering system and over time wear it down. I just read an article about the Dr. who's studied panthers for years, he states clearly chams are lower protein requiring insect eaters. Also if the supplements have vit D3 and vit A that's probably way too often to be giving them. There is definitely something weird going on here for him to have so many health problems. Try to dissect and examine each piece of your husbandry practices to find some kind of pattern or clues.

*Disclaimer* I'm not a vet so take my advice as a hobbyist who has studied a bit about how diet impacts health in regards to many different animals and humans, lol.

Thank you so much for all of your replies.

Per 1 cup of veggies i added 4-5 flakes of fish food ... so I am not sure if that was too much but I am going to cut it out completely. Does anyone have a good gut loading recipe that they would recommend?

When i got home today Herm was looking pretty bad ... sucked up and dark hovering under the UV lamp. I immediately put him in a warm shower. Surprisingly he drank (that is a first for him ... he usually hates going in the shower and so I do it very very rarely and only when I'm desperate) which I was surprised at with his fluids. I went out to the pet store and bought another heat lamp for him (in case he's dark trying to draw in more heat) to add to his basking spot.

I also picked up some crickets and he ATE ONE!! This is the first time that hermie has caught his own food in at least three weeks and a cricket at that. He is NOT usually a cricket fan (they move too fast for him) so I was thrilled. Unfortunately they were freshly store bought and not gut loaded very well (they just use flunkers gut load there) but I dusted him with repcal No phosphorus first. And now he's actually climbing around his cage (although still dark colored). I was hoping he'd go for a second cricket but I guess I shouldn't ask for too much here.

I've (and the vet) have just kind of felt that his kidney issues were due to the MBD in conjunction with the antibiotics and pain meds he was on at that time. We knew that they weren't good for him in the long run but felt liike it was the only choice at the time. He's almost always getting daily subq fluids while on antibiotics so hopefully that has helped his kidneys some. I'm going to get some mylanta tonight and try that as well.

Is there a recommended feeder worm I could use for him (other than wax worms which I'm guessing are bad news for him right now with his Ca:P ratios and kidney problems)? In the past he has done better with worms than crickets because they move slower ... his legs healed crooked so while he can move quickly ... sometimes moving quickly and climbing to get to a cricket presents a challenge for him and I think that it frusturates him and he gives up.

He's moving under his extra heat right now so hopefully this will help him. He looks like he's trying to flatten himself and turn sideways so that he's more parallel to the light ... to take more heat in??

Sorry for rambling ... after all of this I've kind of gotten attached to the little guy.

Jamie