Hey guys, I ended up with two female veileds tonight, each from a different source. One is not as bad as I thought she might be, the other is worse and possibly very, very eggbound.

Veiled one:

3.5 years old

no supplements ever used

No UVB- had a ceramic heat emitter about a foot away from the cage on the side- I don't think it raised the temp at all and there were no thermometers in the cage

Housed in a very large birdcage with one biovine and several ornaments on the bottom (plastic white tiger toys :S )

will not shoot tongue (for past ~2 years)

fed mealworms and snowpeas as main food sources-basically force fed- the owner would slip the pea in and get her to chew and then would put mealworms into her mouth while she chewed

never misted- drank from kitchen sink twice a week or so
suspected vitamin A deficiency (she has one eye scarred over with barely a slit open, squishes it often and it has a little bump on the top of the eyelid and the other eye does not seem to focus at all)

Misshapen back but no obvious signs of bad MBD- legs slightly curvy around the elbows though

Large burn over entire side of body- apparently happened a year or two ago- I am surprised it didn't kill her.

Seems very eggbound- large tummy, especially in back, boxy shaped

She seems to have no depth perception or focus and won't hold onto branches. She will sit partially on a branch and flail a leg or two around aimlessly or let a leg just hang off the branch while gripping with it's twin.

Her nails are kind of long, very yellow and curved more than other chams I have seen

I have cleaned her cage out completely and rearranged it, adding more fake plants, perches, hiding spots, and a large pot of ecoearth mixed with washed sand for laying. I have a regular basking spot and a new Repti-Sun set up for her.

For feeding and supplements:

I was thinking I would give her calcium at every feeding and d3 twice a week for the first month or so. Do you think that would be over doing it? I also will give her preformed vitamin A sometime this week and once every two weeks thereafter until her eyes show improvement. Vitamins will be once a week for now. Opinions?

Here are photos:

cage before cleaning





Her from various angles:









Bad eye:



Good eye:



Burn:



After cage cleaned and set up with what I had tonight:



Her in bottom (I put her in the pot with laying medium as she wouldn't stay on the branches very well):






Veiled two:

This one is not as bad as I thought she would be, especially judging from the photo in her ad. She was hunkered down in the photo, eyes shut, legs looking wobbly, sitting in someones hand and not supporting herself.

She is an adult, unknown age at this point

She has some small robin blue spotting and some large orange spots (does this mean gravid or receptive?) She has super long nails that are very sharp

She has had clutches in the past.

She was being kept in a very small exoterra glass tank without any lights and about four inches of dirt in the bottom. She had some perches and what looked like dead branches with leaves still attached from outside.

She seems to be okay bone wise, has a very strong grip but could use some vitamins and more calcium. She was given crickets dusted with Miner-All with D3 at every feeding.

She seems to have a lot of retained shed here and there.

She is currently in my small schefflera tree until I can borrow and sanitize a reptarium from a friend tomorrow. I have not tried feeding her yet but will supplement with calcium without D3 at every feeding, vitamins once a week for a bit, Vitamin A twice for the month and then once a month (normal) and D3 once a week.

Photos of her:

Before settling in in my tree:



After:



Both chameleons will get some showers and be fed silkies, crickets, roaches, superworms and if I can get them... hornworms. They are both dehydrated to an extent. Both will also get a round of Panacur. I plan on taking them to my vet once I have the cash- it may be a week or so but I think that it will be okay.

Any comments? Ideas?

__________________
1.1 Jacksons 1.2 Ambilobes 1.0 Sambava 1.0 Carpet 0.2 Veileds 1.1 Fischers

Wow-chams in such sad shape. You are a good person to rescue. Does the first one's good eye respond to light/movement? It looks as if she could be blind.
Some real sun time I am sure would benefit, but too much D3 is bad-I would not go more than 2X a month on the adults there. Good luck.

__________________
Julirs http://www.julirschameleons.com 2.2.50+ Veiled 1.1 Oustalet 1.2 Nosy Be 5.3.3 Pygmelions 1.0 Fischers 0.0.1 Mellers 0.1 Ambilobe 0.1 Side-Striped

She doesn't seem to be blind in either but doesn't focus- you can tell in the photo of her good eye. I won't give her D3 more than twice a month then but we don't have many sunny days this time of year in Oregon.

What do you think about the tongue thing? How can I get her to eat? Do you have any ideas? Also, does she look eggbound to you? How can I feel for eggs? What should I do until I can get her to the vet? and how should I treat her scar? Vitamin E?

Thanks for the reply- I really want to make her well and I think it is doable though she has had a rough life thus far.

__________________
1.1 Jacksons 1.2 Ambilobes 1.0 Sambava 1.0 Carpet 0.2 Veileds 1.1 Fischers

Hey! Good luck with these ladies!

As to the sun.... over cast isn't really that bad either. Over cast days are about as intense as a reptisun 10.0 if I'm not mistaken. but.... overcast levels of UVB light are still better quality than light from a reptisun even though the UVB level might be the same.

__________________
Veiled 2.1 - Fred and Jake, Panther 1.0 - Steve, Jacksoni 1.0 - Jackson , Melleri 3 - Pat, Lenny and Henry.

I'm so upset to hear this i've actually got a tear in my eye.

It is very sad knowing people get chams and have NO idea what they are doing. Sure, we aren't born with cham care programmed into our brains.... but some simple logic would be to get some info about an animal you plan to care for.... or not care for

__________________
Veiled 2.1 - Fred and Jake, Panther 1.0 - Steve, Jacksoni 1.0 - Jackson , Melleri 3 - Pat, Lenny and Henry.

I don't think she looks gravid-some females after laying a few clutches get the saggy back end look. As for the tongue-my fear is that there really isn't much that can be done-it could be permanent damage from the MBD.

__________________
Julirs http://www.julirschameleons.com 2.2.50+ Veiled 1.1 Oustalet 1.2 Nosy Be 5.3.3 Pygmelions 1.0 Fischers 0.0.1 Mellers 0.1 Ambilobe 0.1 Side-Striped

So sad that someone could let these beautiful creatures get into this condition. They are very lucky to have you to rescue them. The best of luck to you and may you get both of these girls turned around.

I would say that as soon as you can afford it take #1 to the vet first. She has MBD pretty bad and that back right leg looks either broken or her bone has been absorbed. She may need a calcium injection.

Poor chams. I hope you can bring them to some degree of health. #2 looks pretty rescueable, let's hope there is hope for #1.

__________________
1.3 veileds and 72 eggs

Your pictures do in fact show some signs of MBD in the 3.5 year old. It doesn't look to me like she is carrying eggs ... but it is hard to tell from pictures.
Until you can get her to the vet, I would get her on a good supplement schedule with calcium (no D3) on every feeder.
The second animal is showing receptive coloration, not gravid. Keep an eye on her.
I would use forceps to feed number one, and if necessary use the previous owners snow pea technique. Snow peas have some calcium in them, which may have helped her MBD from being even worse than it is.
There used to be a saying in the hobby that anyone could keep a veiled chameleon for a year because that's about how long it takes to kill one.
Girl number one is a great example of how resilient and hardy these animals really are.
She will benefit tremendously from your husbandry.
Good luck with both of them!

-Brad

__________________
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
Dedicated to promoting superior care for Veiled Chameleons