quads (captive hatched vs LTC wild-caught)

In Kevin's (Dooley1) recent thread titled T. quadricornis photos, he posted pics of some beautiful captive born and bred quads of his and Nick's, mentioning that it is good for people to see the potential of the species as cbb. I thought it would be interesting to see some pics of adult or near adult captive hatched vs long term captive wild-caughts (CH vs LTC WC). Once wild caught are acclimated they too have the potential, of course, to look really nice, especially after getting re-hydrated and going through sheds to get rid of those blackened areas along the dorsal crests and blackened areas due to nose rubs, which are so common with imports.

I've heard keepers mention the differences sometimes seen in WC panthers vs CH panthers (e.g. differences in scalation and rostral projections, etc.). So, for any of you that have quads now or used to keep them, I would love to see photos posted here of your sub-adult to adult quads. Please specify whether it's CH or a LTC wild-caught.

So, to get started, first up is "Happy", a long-term captive WC. She's laid multiple clutches and I've had her for many years. I'm terrible about naming my chameleons, just ask Laurie. For the longest time, I just called her the female that started bloodline B. After seeing the first pic, which I took not long ago, I've decided to call her "Happy". Notice that she has a "scalloped" dorsal crest. Really, it's more wavy than scalloped. She was that way when I bought her. The dorsal crest kind of reminds me a little of T. johnstoni crenulatus (sp.?). Also notice that she has a slight edema. She usually doesn't have one, but I recently fed her crickets from a supplier that I suspect uses a cricket feed containing D3.

Perry

Next up is Pablo, a cbb beauty. Thankfully I didn't have to think of a name for him. I bought him from Ryan in CA. Ryan did a wonderful job raising him. Pablo was hatched by Laurie. Laurie, I forgot, can you tell us the names of the father and mother of Pablo and when he hatched? Pablo is about 15 months old.

Perry

He is from Annie and Lenny. Annie was cb and Lenny was ltc w/c.

I can add links to threads showing annie and lenny, but I can't post pictures.

Lenny & Annie Mating
https://www.chameleonforums.com/so-begins-quads-action-103153/

The adults
https://www.chameleonforums.com/chams-everywhere-84289/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/lenny-painting-lennys-picture-77755/

Thanks Laurie. Can you give me a date range as to when he hatched?

Pablo has more of an overall bluish coloration than I have ever seen from a any other quad in person, although the pics don't really capture that. I'm not talking about bluish patches or scales but his background coloration.

He has displayed at two girls I have, Happy (LTC WC) and a cbb that I raised from one of my clutches (not mothered by Happy). He hasn't bred with any of the females. He's courted them, but hasn't actually mated with either of them. He's most interested in Happy, but she doesn't want anything to do with him. The cbb female seems receptive but he doesn't seem interested at all in her.

Not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Happy is past her prime, which leaves me just two females that might be breeders, the cbb and the new import, hopefully both of which will lay viable eggs one day.

Perry

laurie said:

He is from Annie and Lenny. Annie was cb and Lenny was ltc w/c.

I can add links to threads showing annie and lenny, but I can't post pictures.

Click to expand...

Oh, yes please Laurie.

pamnsam94 said:

Next up is Pablo, a cbb beauty. Thankfully I didn't have to think of a name for him. I bought him from Ryan in CA. Ryan did a wonderful job raising him. Pablo was hatched by Laurie. Laurie, I forgot, can you tell us the names of the father and mother of Pablo and when he hatched? Pablo is about 15 months old.

Perry

Click to expand...

He's an incredible color, Perry.

I'll play. But my ipad only lets me put one picture on at a time.

Here is Nero out of Alpha x Fynn.
Alpha belongs to Bill Strand, he is a LTC.
Fynn is CH.
Here he is at 11months:

I wonder if Pablo is a clutch mate of my Kaliki? Pretty close in age.

Here is Fynn, the mother of all my quad babies:
She is a little over 2 years in this picture. And pleasantly plump.

Here Fynn is having a rendezvous with a male I got from you, Perry.
This is Jake and he is 18 months old here. Fynn just laid these eggs the other day, 19 perfect ones

Tylene,
I really like Nero, great colors and contrast! Hope the blue pops up a bit more as he ages.

jajeanpierre said:

Oh, yes please Laurie.

Click to expand...

I just added a few links

ponders said:

I'll play. But my ipad only lets me put one picture on at a time.

Here is Nero out of Alpha x Fynn.
Alpha belongs to Bill Strand, he is a LTC.
Fynn is CH.
Here he is at 11months:

Click to expand...

Wow! He's stunning Tylene! So, has Nero fathered any clutches? I'd like to get all of this straight, keeping track of bloodlines, who's related to who, etc. As I've mentioned to Laurie and others before, I'm not good at keeping records all in one place. I don't have a single folder, either electronic or otherwise, where I have all of this info together. It would be good to have it in one place. If not here, then in a more formal format. I'd like to see as many people's potential breeders for the collective effort. If future exchanges of bloodlines are to take place, having a place to view the quads in the breeding "program" would be a good thing.

Perry

pamnsam94 said:

Wow! He's stunning Tylene! So, has Nero fathered any clutches? I'd like to get all of this straight, keeping track of bloodlines, who's related to who, etc. As I've mentioned to Laurie and others before, I'm not good at keeping records all in one place. I don't have a single folder, either electronic or otherwise, where I have all of this info together. It would be good to have it in one place. If not here, then in a more formal format. I'd like to see as many people's potential breeders for the collective effort. If future exchanges of bloodlines are to take place, having a place to view the quads in the breeding "program" would be a good thing.

Perry

Click to expand...

Has anyone thought of setting up a stud book?

ponders said:

Here Fynn is having a rendezvous with a male I got from you, Perry.
This is Jake and he is 18 months old here. Fynn just laid these eggs the other day, 19 perfect ones

Click to expand...

Wow! Jake looks fantastic! I feel like I'm going to run out of superlatives looking at these.

So, I'm guessing Jake is the male that Bill got from me, which you then got from him. Is that right? Bill got 1 male from me from my bloodline A. Both the WC male and the WC female that started bloodline A died. Bill also got 2 females from me (bloodline B). Happy is the mother to my bloodline B while the father of bloodline B, was the LTC, but sadly, nameless wild-caught that I use as my avatar.I'd like to know if the 2 bloodline B females Bill got from me are still alive and doing well, what their names are if they have names, and if either of them have bred.

Perry

ponders said:

Here is Fynn, the mother of all my quads:
She is a little over 2 years in this picture. And pleasantly plump.

Click to expand...

Fynn looks very content in that shot. So, who were Fynn's parents and were they WC or CH?

Perry

pamnsam94 said:

Wow! Jake looks fantastic! I feel like I'm going to run out of superlatives looking at these.

So, I'm guessing Jake is the male that Bill got from me, which you then got from him. Is that right? Bill got 1 male from me from my bloodline A. Both the WC male and the WC female that started bloodline A died. Bill also got 2 females from me (bloodline B). Happy is the mother to my bloodline B while the father of bloodline B, was the LTC, but sadly, nameless wild-caught that I use as my avatar.I'd like to know if the 2 bloodline B females Bill got from me are still alive and doing well, what their names are if they have names, and if either of them have bred.

Perry

Click to expand...

I did get him from Bill as a little baby 2 years ago now. He has fathered one clutch that was just laid Friday.

pamnsam94 said:

Fynn looks very content in that shot. So, who were Fynn's parents and were they WC or CH?

Perry

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Her mother was a gravid WC. My friend hatched the eggs. Haven't heard of any of her siblings surviving.

Hey Laurie, is Kaliki from Annie and Lennie? I never got the parents names from you. And Bill gave me only an approximate age. Could be from the same clutch as Nero?

ponders said:

I did get him from Bill as a little baby 2 years ago now. He has fathered one clutch that was just laid Friday.

Click to expand...

Tylene, since I never named his mother or father, why don't you go ahead and name his parents postmortem since you seem to be good with naming quads? Whatever you pick, I'll be sure to use from now on. It'll help keep things more clear and make relationships easier to track. My wife especially didn't like it when I would say, "the male and female that started bloodline A" because it was so confusing. I should have just pulled some names out of a hat I guess. That would have been better than nothing.

Her mother was a gravid WC. My friend hatched the eggs. Haven't heard of any of her siblings surviving.

Click to expand...

Care to give her a name too?

ponders said:

Her mother was a gravid WC. My friend hatched the eggs. Haven't heard of any of her siblings surviving.

Click to expand...

Is the mother still alive and do you know if she had a name and what it was?

Perry