Orion is weak, help!
- Thread starter zlee
- Start date
xephyr17
New Member
He doesn't look bad from the pictures. I would suggest filling out a https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ form, that'd help us determine what to suggest to help you out 
zlee
New Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Male, 4 years old, had him since he was 3 weeks old.
Handling - Never
Feeding - Dubia, Zophobas loaded with vine leaves and apples.
Supplements -Calcium 1x week Multivitamin 1x Month D3 1x 2 months.
Watering - Misting 4 times a day, he will come near the screen to drink directly from the sprayer.
Fecal Description -Fecals seem to be of normal color, never tested for parasites.
Cage Info:
Cage Type - screen 120cm high 90cm wide
Lighting -100w basking ligh 1x Repti Glo Compact 5.0 1x 20w CFL
Temperature - Top corner of the cage gets to 28-30 celsius Night temperature is not lower than 20 celsius.
Humidity - 55% according to analog hygrometer, spraying 4 times a day.
Plants - Ficus Benjamina
Placement - Corner of a low traffic room
Location - Central to south europe
Current Problem - Not eating for about 3-4 days ever since he started shedding, found him this morning on the bottom of the cage with a sperm plug(maybe it was just urine but it was large) and eyes closed. I have lifted him up closer to the basking light, he seems unwilling to use his back legs and keeps his eyes closed. I sprayed him and he drank, tried to feed him and he was not interested. Also he does not mind me touching him which is unusual since he usually hisses even when I place food in his cup.
Your Chameleon - Male, 4 years old, had him since he was 3 weeks old.
Handling - Never
Feeding - Dubia, Zophobas loaded with vine leaves and apples.
Supplements -Calcium 1x week Multivitamin 1x Month D3 1x 2 months.
Watering - Misting 4 times a day, he will come near the screen to drink directly from the sprayer.
Fecal Description -Fecals seem to be of normal color, never tested for parasites.
Cage Info:
Cage Type - screen 120cm high 90cm wide
Lighting -100w basking ligh 1x Repti Glo Compact 5.0 1x 20w CFL
Temperature - Top corner of the cage gets to 28-30 celsius Night temperature is not lower than 20 celsius.
Humidity - 55% according to analog hygrometer, spraying 4 times a day.
Plants - Ficus Benjamina
Placement - Corner of a low traffic room
Location - Central to south europe
Current Problem - Not eating for about 3-4 days ever since he started shedding, found him this morning on the bottom of the cage with a sperm plug(maybe it was just urine but it was large) and eyes closed. I have lifted him up closer to the basking light, he seems unwilling to use his back legs and keeps his eyes closed. I sprayed him and he drank, tried to feed him and he was not interested. Also he does not mind me touching him which is unusual since he usually hisses even when I place food in his cup.
laurie
Retired Moderator
If he can't/won't use his back legs and had his eyes closed, I would head for the vet.
A question
what color is normal for his feces?
What color and size was the possible sperm plug
A couple issues,
he does not have a UVB light
the food for the crickets is not healthy
he is not getting adequate calcium
Best of luck with him, let us know how it goes.
A question
what color is normal for his feces?
What color and size was the possible sperm plug
A couple issues,
he does not have a UVB light
the food for the crickets is not healthy
he is not getting adequate calcium
Best of luck with him, let us know how it goes.
Lovereps
Avid Member
Sounds like an emergency
We can help you to determine the possible causes of his troubles but often a vet visit is the only or best way to help a cham regain his health.
Whatever the cause it sounds like it is an emergency and a vet would be the best possible option.
Your picture isn't a close enough view to see what you mentioned. A good close up pic may help.
What catches my attention is this:
His supplement schedule is not good, so it may have caused the problem.
He needs much more calcium.
He also needs D3 and vitamins more often.
The recommendation for a Veiled cham is
Calicium without D3 on most feedings
calcium with D3 2x a month
multivitamin 2x a month
It is possible that he has developed MDB, which is caused by calcium deficiency.
Vetrinarian (and fellow chamkeeper) Ferretinmyshoes wrote about what MBD is and how it is treated here https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-metabolic-bone-disease-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
Calcionate syrup, calcium glubionate, neo calglucon are all names of liquid calcium.
Sometimes a vet visit is needed to get the calcium balance back up from low levels that are life-threatening.
Chams need calcium for their muscles like the heart, intestines and tongue as well as the feet and leg muscles.
If his ReptiGlo is more than 6 months old, then he isn't getting enough UV and that leads to MBD, too.
More on that here:https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/lighting/
His feeders should be fed some more nutritious foods, too and much more about that is here https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/food/
Other things that may be causing troubles:
Impaction in the digestive system can put pressure on the nerves to the back legs.
Causes of impaction include calcium deficiency, dehydration, overly large feeders and eating non-food objects like rocks or substrates from the cage floor or plants.
Sometimes home treatment works, other times only a vet can clear the impaction and save the cham's life:
Read this for some ideas on home treatments https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-do-i-cure-impaction-51864/
He may have fallen and hurt his spine but chams usually do not fall without an illness, so we're back to possibly MBD.
I'm not sure that a sperm plug would cause the symptoms you described.
Misting with warm water, like you'd do for an impaction may help the plug to loosen enough to come out without hurting his hemipenes.
These are just the possibilities that come to my mind.
I know that on a Saturday evening it may not be possible for him to see a vet right away, so you may have luck trying home treatment until then.
Wishing you the best and I hope you let us know what happens.
We can help you to determine the possible causes of his troubles but often a vet visit is the only or best way to help a cham regain his health.
Whatever the cause it sounds like it is an emergency and a vet would be the best possible option.
Your picture isn't a close enough view to see what you mentioned. A good close up pic may help.
What catches my attention is this:
His supplement schedule is not good, so it may have caused the problem.
He needs much more calcium.
He also needs D3 and vitamins more often.
The recommendation for a Veiled cham is
Calicium without D3 on most feedings
calcium with D3 2x a month
multivitamin 2x a month
It is possible that he has developed MDB, which is caused by calcium deficiency.
Vetrinarian (and fellow chamkeeper) Ferretinmyshoes wrote about what MBD is and how it is treated here https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-metabolic-bone-disease-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
Calcionate syrup, calcium glubionate, neo calglucon are all names of liquid calcium.
Sometimes a vet visit is needed to get the calcium balance back up from low levels that are life-threatening.
Chams need calcium for their muscles like the heart, intestines and tongue as well as the feet and leg muscles.
If his ReptiGlo is more than 6 months old, then he isn't getting enough UV and that leads to MBD, too.
More on that here:https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/lighting/
His feeders should be fed some more nutritious foods, too and much more about that is here https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/food/
Other things that may be causing troubles:
Impaction in the digestive system can put pressure on the nerves to the back legs.
Causes of impaction include calcium deficiency, dehydration, overly large feeders and eating non-food objects like rocks or substrates from the cage floor or plants.
Sometimes home treatment works, other times only a vet can clear the impaction and save the cham's life:
Read this for some ideas on home treatments https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-do-i-cure-impaction-51864/
He may have fallen and hurt his spine but chams usually do not fall without an illness, so we're back to possibly MBD.
I'm not sure that a sperm plug would cause the symptoms you described.
Misting with warm water, like you'd do for an impaction may help the plug to loosen enough to come out without hurting his hemipenes.
These are just the possibilities that come to my mind.
I know that on a Saturday evening it may not be possible for him to see a vet right away, so you may have luck trying home treatment until then.
Wishing you the best and I hope you let us know what happens.
zlee
New Member
zlee
New Member
Unfortunately where i live there probably wont be any way for him to see a vet, reptiles are quite rare to have as pets here so i guess it is not lucritive.
Psychobunny
Avid Member
I don't think your cham is getting enough calcium.
This can cause problems if it continues.
The semen plug is incidental and I wouldnt worry about that, you will always see them.
Since you say you never handle him, this may be a bit tricky, but if you can get him in your hands, rub his back legs gently with your fingers to check and lumps, esp around the joints.
Also check his rear grip, if you found him on the floor, check for weak grip in the back legs. He may be unable to grip properly and is falling.
He needs his food dusted with plain calcium every day.
You should call the vets in your area and ask if they know about chams (lots don't!!)
This can cause problems if it continues.
The semen plug is incidental and I wouldnt worry about that, you will always see them.
Since you say you never handle him, this may be a bit tricky, but if you can get him in your hands, rub his back legs gently with your fingers to check and lumps, esp around the joints.
Also check his rear grip, if you found him on the floor, check for weak grip in the back legs. He may be unable to grip properly and is falling.
He needs his food dusted with plain calcium every day.
You should call the vets in your area and ask if they know about chams (lots don't!!)
zlee
New Member
I will check for lumps, I dont handle him because he never liked it so I just left him alone, but today he seems like he just doesnt care which is scary.
Obviously i have failed with the nutrition but him being a stubborn eater since he was a baby and striking often i coudnt give him calcium every day.
It is probably not possible for him to get weak over the night but i did not or rather i failed to see any signs of ilness earlier.
Obviously i have failed with the nutrition but him being a stubborn eater since he was a baby and striking often i coudnt give him calcium every day.
It is probably not possible for him to get weak over the night but i did not or rather i failed to see any signs of ilness earlier.
Lovereps
Avid Member
If there are no vets then please read this and the especially the link .
It tells you how to treat low calcium/MBD
With a new UV bulb, if needed, and the liquid calcium, he might be able to regain his health.
It tells you how to treat low calcium/MBD
With a new UV bulb, if needed, and the liquid calcium, he might be able to regain his health.
xephyr17
New Member
These guys know what they're talking about.
I would also suggest adding some worms like hornworms, silkworms and/or butterworms to his diet a bit. It may help a bit, in addition to everything else everyone is saying, to do that. They have good nutritional values and will aid in getting your cham the nutrients it needs.
Good luck
I would also suggest adding some worms like hornworms, silkworms and/or butterworms to his diet a bit. It may help a bit, in addition to everything else everyone is saying, to do that. They have good nutritional values and will aid in getting your cham the nutrients it needs.
Good luck
zlee
New Member
Update.
I have been hydrating orion for 2 days, made some bug juice for him since he was not eating. He still seems weak but I think just a little bit better.
The only reptile vet in my country is on vacation for 2 weeks so yeah...
I called my city zoo and the vet there will take a look at him but wont do any lab tests since they are not open to the public.
Feeling helpless.
I have been hydrating orion for 2 days, made some bug juice for him since he was not eating. He still seems weak but I think just a little bit better.
The only reptile vet in my country is on vacation for 2 weeks so yeah...
I called my city zoo and the vet there will take a look at him but wont do any lab tests since they are not open to the public.
Feeling helpless.
laurie
Retired Moderator
I know just how you feel. I am a 5 1/2 hour drive from my closest vet.
But you are not helpless. See if the zoo vet will give (sell) you liquid calcium. Then put some in his bug juice. If you can get him outside for natural sun that is the best thing. Also give him lots of mistings. Misting water should be just a tiny bit warmer than the room temp. If he is impacted that may help. Also a drop of mineral oil might help.
Let me know how you and he are doing.
Lovereps
Avid Member
Try giving him the extra calcium and doing the other things Laurie has said.
You can add the 1 drop of calcium liquid to his bug juice in the morning.
Then give the other drop later in the day.
Don't give extra other than 2 drops each day and the calcium dust on his food when he starts eating on his own.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/ tells you more
Often, you will find the calcium liquid/calcium syrup at a chemist, pharmacy, whatever a store that sells health products is called in your area.
Calcium glubionate is sold as Neo Calglucon or Calcionate in the US and Canada.
The brand name is not important.
The doctor at the zoo should know and maybe can sell you some.
You can add the 1 drop of calcium liquid to his bug juice in the morning.
Then give the other drop later in the day.
Don't give extra other than 2 drops each day and the calcium dust on his food when he starts eating on his own.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/ tells you more
Often, you will find the calcium liquid/calcium syrup at a chemist, pharmacy, whatever a store that sells health products is called in your area.
Calcium glubionate is sold as Neo Calglucon or Calcionate in the US and Canada.
The brand name is not important.
The doctor at the zoo should know and maybe can sell you some.
zlee
New Member
Update.
So the nice lady vets at the city zoo took a look at Orion and said he has mild MBD and a respiratory infection. They gave him vitamin injections and done a x-ray that they will look at tomorrow since they had to tend to the lions.
We will start a treatment tomorrow morning.
This was all free of charge, needles to say they will both get roses and chocolate.
So the nice lady vets at the city zoo took a look at Orion and said he has mild MBD and a respiratory infection. They gave him vitamin injections and done a x-ray that they will look at tomorrow since they had to tend to the lions.
We will start a treatment tomorrow morning.
This was all free of charge, needles to say they will both get roses and chocolate.
