Not using his tongue

Hi, I've been on here for a couple weeks now just looking at other peoples posts. I have a Panther that I got from some body two weeks ago and I don't think they were taking proper care of him. He seems to have early symptoms of MBD, where he isn't using his tongue very well. I got a new reptisun 5.0 tubular bulb for him and have been dusting all of his food with reptical w/out D3, once a week with D3. I've been putting crickets in his cage but he will not eat them, he will only eat superworms and waxworms. I just went out and got him silkworms from a local person today and when I get home we'll see how he eats those. Even with the superworms he only eats about 2 a day. He doesn't seem to be doing bad symptom wise, except for the tongue thing.

Anyways, question is, how long until I see a change in his ability to use his tongue or will he be able to use his tongue eventually?

I will fill out your "how to ask for help" form in little bit, I'm at work and I'm not really supposed to be on here right now

How does he eat the superworms and waxworms? Panthers will get addicted to superworms and refuse to eat crickets, mine did it. How old is he? If he is an adult, they eat less as I have found with mine. Is he drinking well? Also if he is impacted (constipated) he will not want to eat much. Has he pooped and what does it look like? Just a few questions to concentrate on and yes the help form will be able to give you positive feedback on the husbandry.

* Your Chameleon - Furcifer Paradalis, Male, about 1 year old, I've had him for about a week
* Handling - Every couple days for a warm shower
* Feeding - superworms with no gutload, won't eat the crickets that I gutload with carrots, and greens, just got silkworms going to try to feed him those tonite
* Supplements - Reptivite w/out D3 on everything except once a week Repti-cal w/ D3
* Watering - Hand misting cage twice daily with dripper
* Fecal Description - Regular dark brown with white urates, hasnt been tested for parasites, called around for a vet to test for parasites but vet said if you couldn't see worms in his stool than he didnt have them??? so needless to say I didn't take my chameleon there.
* History - Got him from somebody about one week ago and replaced the reptisun 5.0 when I got him. He did try to shoot his tongue when I first got him, but he missed every time, and it only shot out about 4in.


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - All screen 18x18x36 did I mention he doesn't appear to be as big as most year old male panthers. 5.75" nose to vent
* Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 tube replaced when I got him and a standard 100w bulb for heat
* Temperature - 70* at bottom of cage 92* at top, overnight only gets down to 69*, I measure with a infrared gun.
* Humidity - Steadily at 35% or above, up to 60% when misting, but I just got a live plant to try to bring that up. measured with a hydrogemeter
* Plants - One Ficus about 2.25' tall, just put it in last night.
* Placement - In my room in a recessed closet w/out doors. Top of the cage is about 6ft.
* Location - San Diego, CA

He won't eat them out of my hand or tweezers, only if they are crawling on the screen, and he just walks up to them and sticks his tongue to them, even then sometimes they don't stick and they just fall to the floor. I've only given him about five waxworms since I've had him and they have to be crawling on the branches in his cage for him to eat them. He is drinking about every other time I spray him usually when I mist him at night. He does seem to close his eyes a lot and when he closes them he is constantly flushing them. Ive seen him rub his eyes against the screen once also.

Thanks
Scott

Are you using Zoo Med Reptivite without D3?

Yah, I think so. Is that not good?

Well i was using that 6 times a week and i ended up giving my male veiled a Vitamin A overdose and he died a month ago i didnt know i was giving him more vitamins then calcium dont listen to pet stores. Use this dusting Schedule. EDIT... The Vitamin A overdose caused him to become very dehydrated and he wouldnt open his eyes. unless he was being touched

Week 1
Mon-Fri...Rep-Cal Calcium W/O D3
Sat....Nothing
Sun....Rep-Cal Calcium W/ D3

Week 2
Mon-Fri....Rep-Cal Calcium W/O D3
Sat....Nothing
Sun....Rep-Cal Herpivite

Week 3
Mon-Fri...Rep-Cal Calcium W/O D3
Sat...Nothing
Sun....Rep-Cal Calcium W/ D3

Week 4
Mon-Fri....Rep-Cal Calcium W/O D3
Sat....Nothing
Sun....Rep-Cal Herpivite


Ive done alot of research since he died... im tripple checking everything before i buy another veiled

okay, in my opinion for tonight and the next week or so do not use any supplements or dusting. What signs is he showing that leads you to believe that he has early signs of MBD? A picture would help alot we can work on the cage set up as we go. Do you know if the previous owner used supplements and dusting? If so, they may have over supplemented. Do his eyes appear to be sunken in at all? The eyes closing alot could mean that he is dehydrated.

Thanks for the heads up, I will stop using it. I did notice that it had some Vit A in it but I've heard that it isnt enough to do anything to them, anyways I am going to try silkworms and I think they have enough calcium in them already so I wont have to dust them, that will give me some time to get the Rep-cal w/out D3.

Thanks
Scott

Can you post a picture? Do you know if the previous owners used supplements? What leads you to believe he has early signs of MBD?

Very good catch i couldnt find any rep-cal calcium without D3 in my town so i thought since it had no D3 the zoo med stuff was ok. but it wasnt my guy died in like 2 days and he kept scratching his eyes and wouldnt use his tongue or even eat crickets. it sounds the same to me. Just my 2 cents

The previous owner told me not to use any supplements and that she didn't. She said she fed her crickets the gutload cube things you get in the jars at petco, and she gave me a bunch of that stuff. I've read in some different articles that one of the first signs of MBD is poor aim with their tongue and then it gets to the point where they don't even use their tongues.

His eyes don't seem to be sunken in, or crusty or anything, but sometimes he loses interest in eating and closes them and starts to clean them, It seems to be one eye more than the other. I have some antibiotic ointment that she gave me for his eyes, but I haven't used any of it. I've been trying to bring the humidity up in the cage since I got him hence getting the ficus.

Thanks
Scott

Be careful about over supplementing and gutload your feeders.

I say if you have the time and money a vet visit wouldnt hurt i wish i woulda took my guy in. Chams are very good about hiding things

I would use the calcium w/o d3 less. Five times a week max. Lowwer his basking temp to about 85. Did he only eat supers at his previous home? If he's not underweight try starving him for a few days until he eats crickets, silkworms, or roaches. He may not acctually have MBD if it's only his tongue that seems wrong. Though it is a sign of MBD, it could have just been injured or he could just have a funky tongue. Do his limbs look bowed? Only a vet could tell you for sure.

Unfortunately I'm at work and the only pictures I have with me are on my cell phone, and I don't have internet at home right now.

Scott this doesn't sound good, not knowing exactly how the previous owner "really" took care of him, which it doesn't sound like they did. In my opinion, you need to take him to a herp vet and have him checked out. Let us know where you are.

I was going to lower his basking temps but he always seems to like getting to the closest branch to his light where it is about 90*, sometimes he will even lean over and try to pick up more heat. I've used the temp gun and checked the temperature on him after hes been sitting under the light and hes around 89*

She did say that he preffered superworms, but she used to just put a bunch of superworms and crickets in there at the same time like once a week

pssh said:

I would use the calcium w/o d3 less. Five times a week max. Lowwer his basking temp to about 85. Did he only eat supers at his previous home? If he's not underweight try starving him for a few days until he eats crickets, silkworms, or roaches. He may not acctually have MBD if it's only his tongue that seems wrong. Though it is a sign of MBD, it could have just been injured or he could just have a funky tongue. Do his limbs look bowed? Only a vet could tell you for sure.

Click to expand...

Pssh - In my opinion how can you come up with such a quick fix? This isn't sound advice.

It's not a quick fix. I was saying that it may not be MBD. It is after all, possible that it isn't. Of course I suggest a vet visit to be sure, so don't take what I say as a solution. Starving a chameleon of good weight is often the solution to a refusal to eat 'healthier' foods. And you yourself said over supplementation is bad, so I fail to see how that part is a quick fix.