MBD Chameleon, First-Time Owner

Hello everyone,

I am very new to all of this, both the website as well as owning a chameleon, so just let me know if you need any more information after I am done.

I work at a family owned exotic pet store, and on a day that I wasn't there, these two guys dropped off a chameleon. I came in the next day and asked where it came from, and my co-worker told me that two guys dropped it off temporarily because it was sick and they didn't know what to do for her. We take in sick animals a lot for people that are first time owners and such, so this wasn't really out of the ordinary. I looked in on the chameleon, and it was a very very dark brown, its eyes were closed, and it was breathing very heavily. I didn't really deal with the chameleons too much at the time, and I didn't want to get too attached since it looked obvious that she was going to die, so I just didn't think any more about it.

A few days later, the chameleon was still there, and got a lot of color back in her, so I started to ask a bit more about her. Apparently the guy that dropped her off kept her in a 10 gallon glass aquarium, but most of the time he just let her walk around his house. The only light on her was a red heat light that he only turned on for an hour a day. After he lost her in the house for a week, his roommate went out and got him another one. They started fighting, so he thought that if she survived a week in the house without supervision, she didn't need an enclosure. I'm not sure how long this went on, but from what I was told it sounded like months, and it was only after he found her laying on the ground on her side did he bring her in. He didn't feed her anything but mealworms, and that was only when he saw her roaming around the house.

After my co-worker told me this, I made up my mind that I wasn't giving the chameleon back to him even if she did make it. I started taking care of her the most of the time I was at work, and in my free time reading up on them. About three days after I heard all of the back story on her, the owner and he roommate comes into the store while I am checking up on her. The first words out of his mouth, "oh, she's still hanging on then?" After a short, heated conversation with him, I bought the chameleon off of him for ten dollars. I also found out that these guys are from Australia and only wanted a chameleon because they are so hard to get down there. This was also the second time they had brought her in for MBD, although it was in the early stages the first time, so it wasn't too bad.

Anyway, there is everything that has happened to her up until now.

Currently she is still living at the store under a UVB bulb and a heat lamp. She cannot walk at all, she just lays there all of the time. She cannot get the food that we put in there, but whenever I put food in or near her mouth, she happily eats A LOT. She is super thin right now, so I have been feeding her a combination of waxworms, crickets, and mashed up carrots and sweet potato. She doesn't seem to like mealworms. All of her food is dusted with calcium without D3, or sprayed with a vitamin supplement. I have to give her water through a syringe because she cannot move to drink on her own, and she does lick at the syringe when I do it. She also gets a warm bath once a day, I was told to do this, so I'm not sure why exactly I am, but I am told that it makes her feel good.

Also, we have a vet that comes into the store once a month, and he is going to get me the calcium injections that I need, but even though he is a herp vet, he still seems very... unsure of chameleons. He said that he had never kept them before, and didn't really offer me any advice other than to keep doing what I am doing.

So, I think that is about it. As mentioned before, I have never taken care of a chameleon before, and I know that I am not the best person to try an rehabilitate a MBD chameleon, but as of right now I am all she has and I'm just trying to do my best. If there is anything I am doing right or wrong, please let me know and I will correct it straight away. Any other tips or tricks would be the best. I have three pictures of her if you would like me to post them, just let me know.

Lastly, I am sorry this is so long, I just wanted to give out all of the information that I could.

I just found the "How to Ask For Help" thread. So... I guess I will fill that out

-The chameleon is a Veiled Cham. Female. I think they said around six months old, perhaps more. It has been in my care for about six days now.
-I handle it everyday in order to feed her and give her water.
-I am feeding her waxworms, crickets, and mashed up carrots and sweet potato. Usually she eats between 3-5 waxworms, and 3 or 4 crickets everyday. She eats about a teaspoon of carrot and sweet potato every two days so far. I try to feed her every day, and she usually eats little bit every day. I am gut loading the crickets with Flukers cricket quencher and the dry food, and I do not gut load the waxworms.
-I use Flukers calcium without D3, and Zilla food supplement reptile food spray and Zilla vitamin supplement reptile food spray.
-She cannot drink water unless I drop it along her mouth with a syringe. I believe she gets misted once a day.
-Her droppings are either brown, but a few of them have been white or cream colored. There are a lot. I do not think she has been tested for parasites.
-All of her history that I know can been seen in the first post.

-Right now she is in own quarantine tank which is a 10 gallon glass tank.
-75 watt Exo Terra heat lamp and two 15 watt Exo Terra UVB bulbs. Her lights go out around 8pm every night, and come back on at 11am the next morning. The store is kept at a constant 76 degrees.
-Her temp is usually between 76-82 degrees during the day, and during the night 76. There is a thermometer in the tank, and the thermostat is set at 76 degrees.
-I am not sure of humidity, but I will definitely look into that later on today.
-There are no live plants.
-Her tank is on the top self of the reptile room at the pet store. She is in a rather closed off section of the room. There are no fans or air vents around her. Noise levels are generally not an issue there. The tank is about seven feet from the floor.
-I am located in West Virginia.

I hope I did this right

If she has MBD(which I am sure she does if no UVB had been provided) then the calcium injections are what you want to do. Be aware the they will not reverse the MBD but will prevent it from getting worse, so unfortunately the damage is done. Most of us supplement our chams with a plain calcium at every feeding, one with d3 a couple of times a month and a multivitamin a couple times a month as well. Definitely post the pics. Are you sure you have a female? A healthy cham of that age can pound down 20 crickets a day easily but I know she is ill and probably cannot eat that much. Try adding some fresh fruits and vegetables to your cricket gutload also. Good of you to take her in and I hope she will make a come back and be able to live a happy live if the MBD is not too severe. BTW fish tanks are not really want you want to be housing her in due to the ventillation they lack.

Hello, welcome to the forum Your poor girl has had a hard life so far, but you are doing good. Here's a great all round caresheet for Veileds - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html Part 2 has some gutloading and egg laying info.
It would be worrying if she's getting ready to lay, but they can lay infertile eggs from less than 6 months so you should get a laying bin ready just in case - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html
If you can get other worms like silks or phoenix worms that would be much better for her, as they are higher in calcium too. Waxworms are ok for variety and because she needs fattening up a bit, but they are too fatty to give every day really.
She will be most comfortable with a lot of foliage to hide in, with branches the right size for her feet.

I just want to say that I think you're wonderful.
'nuff said.

I am pretty sure that she is a female. Her legs are very very noodley, so it was rather hard to say at first what she was, but I compared her back legs to a male cham that we have, I she is definitely a female. I am not sure on her age at all after talking more to my boss today, but maybe you guys can tell from her size in the pictures. I know the glass tank is terrible for ventilation, but my boyfriend is making her a custom cage right now, which is going to be huge and amazing once he is done. He hasn't exactly started yet, but I wanted to go ahead and ask a few questions before he does. Should we make the cage taller, or just about 3-4 feet high. I'm worried about her falling off of the branches, which is why I wanted to make it shorter, but I want her to have all of the room she needs.

Also, thank you so much for the care sheets. I've heard that MBD can't be reverse, but I have found a few videos online where the chams are at least able to walk and have a happy life after they get better. This is all I want for her right now because of how miserable she currently is.

This pictures don't make her look very good, and I forgot to mention that she can't hold her mouth completely closed, so her tongue comes out frequently. Could that mean anything else? These were taken about three days ago, I keep forgetting to take a more recent one of her.

I couldn't get it to upload more than one pic :C

a male will have spurs or little spikes on the back of their heels on the back feet. That is usally the way to tell when they are young as their marking do change and then it is easier to tell a male from female as far as that goes as they become adults.

MBD will misform the mouth also like that, so most likely it is that. Mouthrot will also cause the mouth to not close properly but you will see it looking black or even bloody in the area that is rotting. I am thinking female from the markings. I am not a good judge on age although she/he looks a decent size, maybe a year or so? There are a couple of things you can do if you make the cage tall, and that is just make the branches and vines low for the time being and you can put a towel or something down on the floor of the cage incase she falls. I would bunch it up. Later on if she gains strength you could raise the branches up if she does well.

The quickest way to get the MBD under control is to have a vet give her calcium injections and when her blood calcium levels are high enough, a shot of calcitonin to draw the calcium rapidly back into the bones.

Once you have it under control, you need to make sure things are done properly to keep the nutrients balanced.

Until she gets her strength back, I would keep the branches low so that she will be less likely to fall and break more bones.

Does the tongue stick out very far or just the tip of it?

Here's some information I hope will help you ....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

Usually it's just the tip of the tongue, but if I am giving her water, or right after she eats it sticks out about an inch or so. Usually if I touch it with food or water she brings it back in and it doesn't happen again for the rest of the day.

I don't think that I will have her calcium injections until Thursday or Friday, that's the only time the vet can come back and give them to me and show me how to use them. I can only see him by appointment, so I have to wait for him to come to me. If I need them sooner, I can see what I can do.

I will definitely try to follow those tips. I looked around for the UVB bulb that you mentioned, but I don't think that I can afford it at this time. I would have to get a new compact top for my tank, and all together it would be around sixty dollars for everything, but if I need it for the time being, my boss said that I can borrow one from the pet store. All I have is a 26W Exo Terra Repti Glow 5.0 UVB that I just bought for my frogs a few weeks ago. Will that do for now?

I finally got the uploader to work for me. Here are the other two pictures I have of her. I know that in one her cage looks really dirty, but I took it before I bought her and started caring for her. Since then it has been completely redone.

I don't know enough to give advice but I think you're doin a wonderful thing and I take my hat to u!! Keep up the good work, I hope she gets healthy and happy again

it is a wonderful thing you have done for her. i hope she gets better soon! i would do just what you are doing now and hope she gets better everday. is he the only exotic vet near you? instead of him coming to store you might want to speed things up and just take her to him.

Yes, the more I'm thinking about it, I'm going to call our vet to see if I can stop in real quick before Friday to get everything. If he really doesn't have time, then I won't press the issue, but I suppose I should at least try

Thank you everyone for your encouraging words. I was so worried about this going into it, but with all of the advice and help I have been getting, I'm starting to feel a lot better about the whole thing.

Oh, and I forgot to add, I am bringing her home today in the afternoon! I am very excited, but a bit nervous. I thought I could leave her at the store for a few weeks or days until she had more strength, but our iguanas are getting sick so they will need the quarantine tank. Also, I ordered her some butterworms, which I read are very high in calcium. Will these be good for her as a staple diet along with crickets? I really need to stop feeding her waxworms, but I wasn't sure if butterworms were just as fatty.

Butterworms will be great. Variety is the most important thing for a healthy diet, but just crickets and butterworms will be ok for now if you gutload the crickets well. The 5.0 bulb you have will do for her, tube ones are more often recommended though. Good luck with her

The pictures make me so sad that someone could neglect an animal like this, intentionally or unintentionally, it is so disturbing. You have your work cut out for you that is sure. Please keep us updated with everything and anything we can do to help with any questions you may have. Good luck to you!

im so sorry. i hope your cham gets better goodluck and welcome to the forums.

I just now brought her home. I took a video of her right before I started feeding her that I will post later tonight. She isn't doing anything special, just laying down. I got her to eat two crickets before I left the store, now she won't eat anything. I'm already worried.

She keeps doing what I can only describe as a yawn. She will open her mouth really wide, then it looks like her tongue goes in her chin (I guess that's what it would be), and she still won't eat anything. Maybe getting used to the change? She drank a lot of water today, and one of her eyes isn't sunken in anymore, but the other one is slightly.