Lighting

Hello, new to this forum and rusty to chameleon keeping, it has been almost 20 years since I last had a veiled.

Anyway, I am an avid reef keeper and have two lights I am thinking of using for the veiled I let my daughter buy. I have metal halides (400 watt fixtures) and was wondering if anyone uses MH. I found one article saying to use it, but no info really on the brand of bulb.

I also have 100watt LED canons for my reef that are not installed.

Metal halides are an up and coming with chameleon keeping. there are brands (such as lucky reptile) that have been popular in the UK and Europe for years. Here in the U.S many keepers are experimenting with using the new exo terra sunray metal halides. The draw is that they can provide UVb and heat in one bulb. I personally am interested in them due to their ability to attempt to mimic the full spectrum of light. If you are going to use metal halides with chameleons my advice is to get a solar meter. I have been advised by the European users that a 6.5 meter is a must when using this type of bulb,and that is what I purchased (some keepers use a 6.2 meter). You want to be sure you are not exposing them to too much UV Rays.

Metal halides are an up and coming with chameleon keeping.

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Reptile Specialties was selling a metal hallide system 20 years ago for chameleons.

Anybody else remember that business? I think I still have a pricelist somewhere from them that has what would be lots of dream species nowadays.

The big problem with hallides is the cost - I suppose- one question I've had as I prepare to do all new lighting now is how long hallide bulbs last and another is does the UVB last as long as the bulb?

fluxlizard said:

Reptile Specialties was selling a metal hallide system 20 years ago for chameleons.

Anybody else remember that business? I think I still have a pricelist somewhere from them that has what would be lots of dream species nowadays.

The big problem with hallides is the cost - I suppose- one question I've had as I prepare to do all new lighting now is how long hallide bulbs last and another is does the UVB last as long as the bulb?

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My halides are new so I wont be able to tell you that until months from now LOL. I am using the exo terra sunrays, and my biggest concern is that the UV output is too high. I have to put extra layers of screen between the bulb and cage screen to reduce the UVB. Second complaint is that the heat output is not that great. I have the 35 watt on there now, but will try the 50 next. I had the 50 watt on my bearded dragon and it about blinded him. I think he was too close and it went badly. I took it away and he has made a good recovery.

Edit: and my up and coming statement was as of now, we dont see them much right now in chameleon keeping.

yeah I know what you meant- I just thought it interesting that it didn't catch on.

I'll personally probably end up going t5 . I don't want to have to mess with the brightness and cost.

Reptile Specialties! I remember them well. He always had some of the coolest stuff. Brookesia ambreensis was first available through them.

Halide lighting is not nearly as efficient as T5 lighting. By this I mean you just don't get the same amount of coverage per watt unless you hang the halides higher above the enclosure.

Carl

I remember the Ads with John Uhern and the chameleons he had pictured in his Ad...maybe a F. minor...? Funny how that stuff sticks with you.

Interesting, will have to become better versed in the basics of what is used here. Whereas the hobby seems to be using very small wattage bulbs which don't produce as much heat as you'd like, reefkeeping uses high wattage bulbs - smallest is usually the 70 watt HQI bulbs - that produce a lot of heat that needs to be vented out. We also use UV shields in reefing to filter out UV. In terms of meters, a PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) meter tends to be used, although it is not very accurate measuring blue intensity - most likely has no bearing on UVA and UVB output. For coverage, the reflectors used are pretty good and the brand I use, Lumenarc III, provide about a 3'x3' coverage at about 1' below the reflector. The increased wattage and intensity is to penetrate into the water further, not a concern here as obviously once the light hits a plant or branch, that is the end of its journey.

Since metal halides mimic sunlight, I would assume I could use these in the right situation with the right bulbs. Cost wise, it is an expensive investment, but then again, when buying the readily available UV bulbs from the big manufacturers I more often than not experience low quality bulbs that burn out in weeks so I think cost would be a wash...

I am hoping to find a lot of equipment parallels between these hobbies as probably 20 years ago I used old reef lights (T-12 bulbs!) for iguanas and they developed the most iridescent coloration I have ever seen - ended up bringing them back to the herp store and they were drooling over getting them from me based on the unique coloration they had developed.

fluxlizard said:

Reptile Specialties was selling a metal hallide system 20 years ago for chameleons.

Anybody else remember that business? I think I still have a pricelist somewhere from them that has what would be lots of dream species nowadays.

The big problem with hallides is the cost - I suppose- one question I've had as I prepare to do all new lighting now is how long hallide bulbs last and another is does the UVB last as long as the bulb?

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Halides work for years, but as you mentioned, degrade over time. Studies for reefs show that their color starts to hit at around 6-9 months and at about a year they tend to be "worn out", but again, not measuring UV here. Certainly they will still provide lots of heat...

CarlC said:

Reptile Specialties! I remember them well. He always had some of the coolest stuff. Brookesia ambreensis was first available through them.

Halide lighting is not nearly as efficient as T5 lighting. By this I mean you just don't get the same amount of coverage per watt unless you hang the halides higher above the enclosure.

Carl

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I have old T5s in my garage as well, but they are too long for my enclosure. That said, do you derive heat from your T5s as well? I know they produce very little, but i would think what you do get would be beneficial. In reefing people usually run a fan blowing along the bulbs to remove heat as they degrade faster due to heat. Do you find the same is true for herp keeping?

davelin315 said:

I have old T5s in my garage as well, but they are too long for my enclosure. That said, do you derive heat from your T5s as well? I know they produce very little, but i would think what you do get would be beneficial. In reefing people usually run a fan blowing along the bulbs to remove heat as they degrade faster due to heat. Do you find the same is true for herp keeping?

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The small amount of heat I get helps to heat the chameleon room which in turn keeps the small heater from running.

I change bulbs out at the 6 month mark and then they get used in the garage or basement. Getting them to last longer I haven't tried.

Carl

Here's the spectral output of the bulb and ballast combination I'm talking about (PFO-HQI ballast). There is no UVB (perhaps a tiny bit) and the UVA seems to be pretty low in output (from 320-420nm).

Any thoughts on this?

So after asking around with some lighting people I know I couldn't come up with a reliable conversion for UVB measurements using the spectral analysis graph above and the uW/cm2 that is used for lighting recommendations so set off to find a UVB meter. Realizing that I should have asked at work, I borrowed one from our herptologists and the reading for my lamp through a very dirty UV filter at about 10" below the bulb is 16 (the UV filter is covered by salt creep). This is from a year+ old bulb and so I'm going to pull the fixture down, clean off the UV filter, and see what the measurements are below the lamp at different places. This measurement as compared to a 15W UVB 5.0 bulb right now is comparable as that one read in the 20s without any filters on it.

Will let you know what I find - if these bulbs do in fact produce enough appropriate UVB then this could be an untapped free market for herp keepers as MH bulbs from reef tanks typically are retained no longer than 6-9 months, perhaps as long as a year, so they could be had for free if they are still producing appropriate amounts of UVB in the right spectrum for your chameleon.