A guide to WC rearing-- member input

I recently have been looking to wild caught chameleons, though I have never had experience with them. I was hoping that some members here could compile their knowledge and experience for those of us who have none.

Thank you all in advance!

generally from what i know. depending on the species wc often come in with parasites that need to be treated, they often with have cosmetic damage from being in the wild ( scares, broken horns ect. )
i don not belive that they have the same life expectancy as cb, and being that you cant determin exact age you never know.
bonus tho females sometimes ( often ) come in gravid.
thsts all i have right now

In addition to this^^^ You generally want to acclimate them to their new home and surroundings(Often come in very dehydrated and skinny) before beginning any treatment of parasites. Combining the stress of the two situations is enough to kill them.

Edit:None of this is from my experience, only from what I have learned from other people. So someone please correct me if I am wrong.

coldbloodedAL said:

In addition to this^^^ You generally want to acclimate them to their new home and surroundings(Often come in very dehydrated and skinny) before beginning any treatment of parasites. Combining the stress of the two situations is enough to kill them.

Edit:None of this is from my experience, only from what I have learned from other people. So someone please correct me if I am wrong.

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I've read this too. Usually, you want to hydrate them a lot. Showers, and heavy misting. Water really helps. I had a wild caught Jackson before who loved water. I had him for around 6 months and he was huge! Bigger than any I've seen.

The most important thing is why are you going wc? If its because you want a rare species. I say go for it. Esp if your wanting to start a breeding project. If its a common species like pardalis or calyptratus. I'd say go cb unless you want to start your own bloodlines or need fresh blood to add to existing lines.
You def want to hydrate any wc's before starting any type of deworming process. It can take months to acclimatte & clean up a fresh wc. The fecals, the meds, the vet trips & the time make this more than the avg hobbyist would want to deal with. Thats why i say unless you breed or are wanting to start breeding stick to the cb's. They are more acceptable to handling most of the time and in most cases longer lived due to wc's stress of capture and importation issues. And if you have an existing collection of clean cb's you have to quarantine very carefully to avoid any cross cotamination issues. In other words use gloves and dont touch anything after dealing with the wc until youve washed up and changed gloves. Its not as simple as administering panacur and waiting a few weeks. It can be a pita dealing with them. Jmo...

are you looking at wild caughts at the wheaton shows? For us in the midwest majority of the wild caughts we receive are in horrible shape by the time they make it here. As stated first main priority would be getting the chameleon hydration and as soon as you see the first poo taking it in for fecal.

good luck.

What sort of treatment and medications are needed?

We have several WC melleri and I follow the same general procedure:

Hydration - showers and long mistings
Food - I offer plenty of food and different varieties

I don't seclude them in a closet but I minimize bothering with them. I always offer them food by hand and they are usually inclined to handfeed straight away. They are free ranged - never caged.

On day two I start them on a course of Reptaid. I check the fecals after the course of reptaid. Parasites have not been a problem for us.

We have never had a problem with the WC melleri we have gotten shortly after importation from a reputable source. We have had numerous problems with ones that we have gotten as LTCs from people who did not care for them properly. Lots of infections/URIs/broken nails/wounds/etc.

thephotoprincess said:

We have several WC melleri and I follow the same general procedure:

Hydration - showers and long mistings
Food - I offer plenty of food and different varieties

I don't seclude them in a closet but I minimize bothering with them. I always offer them food by hand and they are usually inclined to handfeed straight away. They are free ranged - never caged.

On day two I start them on a course of Reptaid. I check the fecals after the course of reptaid. Parasites have not been a problem for us.

We have never had a problem with the WC melleri we have gotten shortly after importation from a reputable source. We have had numerous problems with ones that we have gotten as LTCs from people who did not care for them properly. Lots of infections/URIs/broken nails/wounds/etc.

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Do you know where i can order reptaid from online? I cannot find it locally to save my life

coldbloodedAL said:

Do you know where i can order reptaid from online? I cannot find it locally to save my life

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http://www.reptaid.com/

or email elliot and sandy at chameleons northwest Im pretty sure they're the owners.

Ive seen more than one cham that was supposedly "treated" with reptaid and was clean only to find it wasnt. Im not here to start bashing reptaid, I use it myself but thats not the only thing I use to clean up wc's. Jmpo but I still use panacur and then use the reptaid as a rehabilitation item to help the cham replenish gut flora that was destroyed by the deworming process. Again just my .02 Do what you feel is appropriate but reptaid isnt a dewormer.....

a lot come with subcutaneous worms" visible under the skin" Ive noticed as well that should be removed.

In my experience with WC chams hydration is the first priority. Hours of misting and a continuous drip. It also seems that acquiring recently imported specimens is the way to go. Generally, the longer they have been under an importer/dealer/stores care the worse off they are. It is also important to have your husbandry together BEFORE you bring one home. Be sure ALL their needs will be met, good light, ambient temps, basking temps and humidity all contribute to their comfort. A comfortable cham is more likely to acclimate than one who's physical needs aren't being meet. Poking around adjusting parameters will only add stress to an already stressed animal. Treatment for parasites is really a secondary concern to be addressed AFTER the animal settles in to it's new life in captivity. Cheers!

Texas Panther Man said:

Ive seen more than one cham that was supposedly "treated" with reptaid and was clean only to find it wasnt. Im not here to start bashing reptaid, I use it myself but thats not the only thing I use to clean up wc's. Jmpo but I still use panacur and then use the reptaid as a rehabilitation item to help the cham replenish gut flora that was destroyed by the deworming process. Again just my .02 Do what you feel is appropriate but reptaid isnt a dewormer.....

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I have used panacur when needed. I was not saying not to use it or anything else. My responses are always based on my personal experiences, nothing more.

thephotoprincess said:

We have several WC melleri and I follow the same general procedure:

Hydration - showers and long mistings
Food - I offer plenty of food and different varieties

I don't seclude them in a closet but I minimize bothering with them. I always offer them food by hand and they are usually inclined to handfeed straight away. They are free ranged - never caged.

On day two I start them on a course of Reptaid. I check the fecals after the course of reptaid. Parasites have not been a problem for us.

We have never had a problem with the WC melleri we have gotten shortly after importation from a reputable source. We have had numerous problems with ones that we have gotten as LTCs from people who did not care for them properly. Lots of infections/URIs/broken nails/wounds/etc.

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Yes, this is all great advice. The biggest key we have found to acclimating animals is to simply leave them alone and give them TONS of water. Our retail locations seldom have issues with the imported animals we carry.

Locations with the ability to house animals outdoors often start them there, and several times a day mist them down thoroughly. We don't usually start parasite treatment here, preferring instead to get animals feeding, hydrated, and solidly started before messing with that at all. We handle them as seldomly as possible, and if certain specimens seem overly stressed, we either remove them from where they are viewable in the store or block off the cage so they can't be bothered. Lots of water and low stress when they first come in tends to prevent most issues often seen in wild caught animals.

With care and dedication, it's not impossible to acclimate wild caught chameleons. Menifee for example has a Meller's that came in with only one eye - even he is doing fabulous, and like the photoprincess said, took quickly to hand feeding. See, here he is taking a roach off my hand:
http://youtu.be/PFfRnQ0TGyA

-Jen

thephotoprincess said:

I have used panacur when needed. I was not saying not to use it or anything else. My responses are always based on my personal experiences, nothing more.

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I didnt single you out in your response. I was just telling the Op from MY exp what to expect from using reptaid to clean up wc chams.

You said you got exceptionally good wc's. There is a huge difference in a freshly caught imported cham and one thats been held in a dirty holding facility for several months. There are numerous factors to consider when trying to acclimate and clean up wc's. While some might come in with a very low parsitic load. Others that were held in crowded conditions for longer periods have higher loads and are harder to clean up initially. I was simply giving the Op another perspective and I was not bashing reptaid for what it is. A beneficial all natural formula that can be used for a variety of medical issues.

LLLReptile said:

Yes, this is all great advice. The biggest key we have found to acclimating animals is to simply leave them alone and give them TONS of water. Our retail locations seldom have issues with the imported animals we carry.

Locations with the ability to house animals outdoors often start them there, and several times a day mist them down thoroughly. We don't usually start parasite treatment here, preferring instead to get animals feeding, hydrated, and solidly started before messing with that at all. We handle them as seldomly as possible, and if certain specimens seem overly stressed, we either remove them from where they are viewable in the store or block off the cage so they can't be bothered. Lots of water and low stress when they first come in tends to prevent most issues often seen in wild caught animals.

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Another very important thing to realize about wc chams...they are in survival mode for weeks or months after arrival. You don't know what they've been subjected to on their trips or what they've been exposed to unlike a cb animal (well, most of the time). All chams hide their problems until they simply don't have the energy to, but wc imports are doing everything they can to appear indestructible. It may take months for a health problem to surface...and this is just about when YOU think the worst is over and relax your own diligence. So, once you get the initial hydration, acclimation, parasite issues supposedly taken care of, your cham can suddenly go down hill, stop eating or drinking, and dwindle away. A newly imported cham who has survived capture and all is in some ways pretty tough because it was strong and grew up in the unforgiving wilds. It is not going to show you its true personality, just how sensitive it is to new stressors, or what nutritional problems it has. They often appear pretty docile and tolerant. Not so...this animal's survival depends on stealth. They may be distracted and so cautious about their new situation that they deceive you.

LLLReptile said:

We don't usually start parasite treatment here, preferring instead to get animals feeding, hydrated, and solidly started before messing with that at all.

-Jen

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Things here in the midwest are quite different. Animals that make it here are not in the same shape as fresh imports that many coast states see. Hydration and treating illnesses is top priority around here.

I have a fair amount of wild-caught panthers. For the most part, they do well and I don't have a lot of problems with them. When I have had issues, the issues are usually fatal. I lost a female to a fungal infection shortly after she arrived once, but that was the only chameleon I've ever received that had a fungal issue (for those who haven't dealt with it... fungal = very bad).
I always screen my wild-caughts at the vet before even letting them in the same room as my collection, let alone putting them in a permanent enclosure (I use temporary enclosures until I am satisfied they are clean). Hydration is very important, as laid out in the previous posts. I don't have an exact method of caring for wild-caughts. I find it's best to just treat each individual chameleon separately. Some will adapt quickly and won't give you any problems. Others will take a lot of time and effort. Observation is really the key. You need to be able to spot potential problems before they become problems (such as a chameleon who isn't eating... don't wait until he's starving and skinny... get his gram weight when he arrives and keep track of how many bugs he is given to eat... if the bugs are still roaming around in the cage two days later and his gram weight has declined, then you need to start bumping him with vitamins and minerals and start switching feeders to see if there's another type of bug the chameleon may prefer - which, in my experience, wc's prefer superworms hands-down over crickets and I can almost always get a wc to start munching on supers until his health is improved and then I will start to reintroduce crickets and other feeders).
A good vet is a necessity when dealing with wild-caughts (unless you are confident you can be your own vet, which very few people can effectively do). To cleanse a wild-caught panther, it can be an involved process that requires multiple medicines and supplements. It also involves very precise measurements (body mass, dosage, frequency, etc.). There really isn't a cheap way to do it, so if you don't have the cash flow to provide care, then stick with captive-bred. I avoid getting into the panacur vs. reptaid debate. I have one and only one concern: making the chameleon healthy and free of parasites. The product you use and the path you take to get there is up to you and your vet. My vet and I have worked out a system that brings positive results and that's all I care about. What's really important is that you make the committment to do what it takes to help the animal... where you start (reptaid, panacur, etc.) isn't nearly as important as where you finish.
I highly recommend giving wild-caughts a lot of privacy and distance from human contact. If you want a reptile you can hold and interact with, either go captive-bred or just get a bearded dragon. It is not in the nature of a wild-caught chameleon to be comfortable with human interaction. It puts the animal under a lot of stress to try to interact with it. Sure, in time you might be able to adapt your chameleon to human interaction... but ask yourself why you did it? Was all that stress for the chameleon's benefit or for yours? I doubt you'll find many wild-caughts who feel their life has been improved by the fact they can now sit on your hand.
All in all, wild-caughts are fascinating pets and in many ways they are considerably more interesting than their captive-bred counterparts. They are a lot of work though and they come with a lot of expense and risk. Just be sure wild-caughts are the right fit for you...
if they are, it will be very rewarding!

I have WC but my personal experience with them is quite limited as ive had no problems with any of mine. When they arrived they were very skinny, dehydrated and stressed. I just put them into quarentine, offered plenty of water by misting twice per day and through dripper, and fed them with a variety of feeders. It took around 2-3 months to see any difference in them and i actually thought the male was going to die, but he pulled through and they are now in perfect condition (apart from the scars which are common in WC). The parasite checks and de worming etc were done before i recieved them as they had been imported 3 weeks prior to me recieving them so most of the hard work was done for me.

WC are no better then CB unless, like others have said, your introducing them to breeding stock. They come with scars, missing nails etc and are often not pleasing to the eye so if its just a pet your wanting, go for a well established CB from a reputable dealer. No problems with parasites, hydration, stress etc with a CB.