Female Panther chameleon egg laying problems

Hi,

I have a three year old female Panther chameleon, she has never previously laid any eggs. However about 2-3 weeks ago she became very lethargic and appeared to struggle climbing her vines etc as such I took her to the vet this week.

The vet initially thought it could be MBD and carried out an x Ray which showed her bones were perfect and there was something in her abdomen. The vet then sent the results to a specialist who said there were four eggs approx 4mm long inside her and advised that I put a laying box in her viv which I have done.

However after she eventually made her way down to the box she did not dig and seems to be weaker and is now unable to climb to her basking spot or dripper.

I left her for 48 hours and she did not move from this spot.

Does anybody have any advice as to what I can do to help her, the specialist was unable to say how long the eggs had been there but I am guessing it's been too long which is causing her to loose strength etc.

I dust her food daily with calcium and use D3 and multivitamins twice a month, she has a heat lamp and two 5.0 UVB bulbs in her viv with the basking spot at around 86. However it is a lot cooler at the bottom where she seems to get stuck after climbing or falling down.

Any suggestions?

Please post a recent photo of her and answer the questions in the how to ask for help thread at the top of the health forum so we can help you better.

I'm no vet but 4 eggs in a 3 year old panther sounds really strange. Depending on her size I would say a 3 year old should carry 35-45 eggs. I would get a second opinion.

Here is a recent picture of her taken yeaterday

See if your vet will give you oxytocin for her. Hopefully that will make her lay. Is she eating and drinking? It's possible the eggs might be to large for her to lay and she needs surgery. If she gets to weak she will not be a good candidate for surgery.

Hi,

Thanks for your reply and advice. If I leave her in her laying bin at the bottom of her viv she is unable to climb up to her food and dropper so I have been lifting her up every two days and the last I seen her eat was two days ago and she pooped yesterday.

The vet said the eggs looked about 4mm in size, is this average for size or large?

Should I leave her in peace on the bottom of her viv or will she deteriorate with little heat etc? She appears to have made no effort to dig by herself and once she is on the bottom she is too weak to climb back to her basking spot

kjanddf said:

Hi,

Thanks for your reply and advice. If I leave her in her laying bin at the bottom of her viv she is unable to climb up to her food and dropper so I have been lifting her up every two days and the last I seen her eat was two days ago and she pooped yesterday.

The vet said the eggs looked about 4mm in size, is this average for size or large?

Should I leave her in peace on the bottom of her viv or will she deteriorate with little heat etc? She appears to have made no effort to dig by herself and once she is on the bottom she is too weak to climb back to her basking spot

Click to expand...

I often did a hole for my girls but if she is that weak she might not be able to lay. I would try the oxytocin I would not let her get dehydrated. Also when she eats she needs heat to digest her food. She will probably die if you just leave her laying I'm the bin. She needs a really good reptile vet.

Thanks again for your help,

I am extremely worried about her but the trouble is where I stay there is a huge lack of experienced reptile vets. I am going to call the vet back that gave me the initial advice and enquire about the injection you have described which you help her start laying.

Would it be more beneficial for me to lift her up to her basking spot to allow her to heat up, eat and digest her food before she receives this injection.

I also have been using critical care formula and liquid calcium which I have been giving her daily, although she only takes a tiny bit at a time.

Apart from being lethargic she is still quite bright and looks healthy enough, I have been misting her in the shower lots too to assist with dehydration

Ok, so I took Daisy back to the vet today he said that the eggs are not formed enough to give her an injection of oxytocin. I asked what he recommended and he said to leave her be unless she goes off her food, and if this happens she would need surgery.

He said there are four eggs in the early stages of formation and they are approximately 4mm long, is this normal?

Does anybody have any suggestions as to how to deal with this, she is very weak and I am having to lift her up to her basking spot daily.

I am giving her liquid calcium daily along with critical care formula and misting her.

She occasionally has a mouth full of worms but is not eating her locusts anymore at all?

How long should I leave her like this and how long will it take for her to ready to lay the eggs, she has never been introduced to a male and the eggs will be unfertilised.

Please help

Are the "eggs" round or oval? Its strange that there would only be four eggs...or even if they are still follicles its strange that there would be only four. She looks plump enough to me that she is either full of eggs or too well fed.

Oxytocin will only work if she's near her time to lay .

She isn't a huge eater so I wouldn't say that she is over fed but I did notice she looked bigger in the abdomen. I'm not sure what shape/size the 'eggs' are because the vet didn't let me see the x Ray picture. What other reasons would cause her lack of energy etc? If they are eggs in the early stages of development how long will it take until she is ready to lay?

Here is the X-ray picture of Daisy from the vet today, can anybody confirm if this does show either eggs or MBD?

Please help, any advice is extremely appreciated!

I would email ferritinmyshoes privately and get her to look at the xray. I don't like the way the eggs look...but I'm not a vet.

Thank you, I will do that just now.... Does there look like more than four eggs to you?

Her bone density is good so no evidence of MBD. Good job there! I see a whole cluster of round follicles. They are not shelled so I agree that oxytocin at this stage would not be beneficial as they are still in the follicular stage. I can see probably 7-9 at least so it's probably a full clutch with the ones I can't see behind intestines and such. That brighter looking area is some bug parts in the digestive tract, just fyi. Unfortunately right now you are in the wait-and-see part of this. If the follicles progress to eggs she might be able to lay them. However in some females the follicles never progress and it's preovulatory follicular stasis. The last veiled I spayed had that problem and there were 60+ follicles that had been in there over two months and never turned to eggs. So I would continue the liquid calcium for sure to give her as much support as she needs to make those eggs and watch for other signs of trouble like sunken eyes, not eating, not moving, etc. if she shows those in the next 2 weeks she'll need surgery. After a few weeks it would be worth it to take a new X-ray to see if they've progressed where oxytocin may help first.

Thank you so so much!!!! I have phoned round all vets here and none have the experience to help me. She is lethargic just now and I am having to lift her up to her basking spot each day as her front legs seem to have weakened, however she is still eating drinking and pooping.

I am giving her liquid calcium daily (with d3) however not sure exactly how much to give, I am also giving her a small amount of critical care formula as she has slowed down eating but not stopped altogether.

I have had her out in the sun with me for about an hour or so each day and this seems to perk her up too.

I am so grateful for your help as I can't stand the thought of her suffering.

If there is anything else I can do that will help her along then please let me know, you are a star!!

Just a quick update about daisy, she has been falling from her vines a lot today and is trying to eat but keeps loosing balance and ending up in the actual tub of worms.

I have been misting her and still using the liquid calcium and CCF daily.

What is the correct dose of liquid calcium I should be giving her?

Is her lack of strength and grip just do to the eggs taking so much out of her and is this normal?

Apart from this she seems bright and hydrated, should I try and force her to eat and if so what is the best way to do this and she seems keep her mouth tightly closed and even giving the liquid calcium is a mammoth task.

Thanks

Karen

Try dripping water on the end of her nose so she will start drinking and while her mouth is opening and shutting EASE a little of the calcium in at a time. Another option is to ease just a LITTLE at a time between her lips and teeth.

Thanks, I have been mostly doing the second of your suggestions and gently dripping some of the calcium between her lips and teeth and she does slowly swallow.

I'm just unsure if it is normal for her to be so weak at climbing and if there is something I am doing wrong.

Will she get enough nutrition from the critical care formula if she is not managing to eat as much?

I'm not a vet but I'm still concerned about the look of the follicles and eggs in the chameleon and her lethargy. I don't think it sounds very hopeful for her.