Export ban?

Does anyone know if an export ban is about to take place from madagascar???

I am told that there will be no more WC Pardalis coming in.

That would be a good thing! No?

Ulrich said:

That would be a good thing! No?

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actually alot of people use wc to bring new blood to breeding programs.

April fools?

I used my google... Found nothing.

But the breeding program is so large already. Especially for furcifer pardalis. I think it is rather time to set up a breeder union (like the zoo's do) and focus on preservation by exchange mates.
Madagascar is not getting a more comfortable space in near future anyways. Neither for the Chams nor for any other species there.

Ulrich said:

But the breeding program is so large already. Especially for furcifer pardalis. I think it is rather time to set up a breeder union (like the zoo's do) and focus on preservation by exchange breeders. Madagascar is not getting a more comfortable space in near future anyways. Neither for the Chams nor for any other species there.

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for some types f panthers yes.

but falys, bes, ankarmys, mitsios, its not.

I don't know much about some of the species. But if Faly is a rare one then trading should be limited only to selected breeders. Not every zoo can get a Giant Panda either.

Ulrich said:

I don't know much about some of the species. But if Faly is a rare one then trading should be limited only to selected breeders. Not every zoo can get a Giant Panda either.

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right now, faly is a sore topic on this forum.

the ones i mentioned and im sure othe rlocales i know nothing about, are hard to come by.

the problem with selected breeders, is that there are only so many bloodlines..
so if only 3 people in the US have a mitsio line, thers only so much breeding that can happen before you start inbreeding, which isnt good.

if you get some wc blood in, it helps to broaden the lines being used.

Well, cannot argue against it. But breeding and preserving has been most of times in history controversial. I love my Chams but if they are banned, I won't have them. As easy as that.

As breeders we need wc blood to infuse into our breeding programs. We still have not seen anyone go past F4 or F5 generations without infusing new blood into the line. At this point I havent read about anyone finding the answer to this problem with cb pardalis.

I google searched it too but found nothing about it either, but im told by a large breeder here in German that it is so.

What am i missing with regards to the Faly debate? Can you send me some links to threads. I must have been sleeping, lol.

Benton1576 said:

I google searched it too but found nothing about it either, but im told by a large breeder here in German that it is so.

What am i missing with regards to the Faly debate? Can you send me some links to threads. I must have been sleeping, lol.

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you dont want ot know, and most threads were closed/deleted.

esentially the faly crap is that so an so's faly isnt pure, this person sells crosses as pure falys, the lines are all crosses.. etc. etc..

While this post is specifically about Tanzanian species, Chris explains why we haven't seen many imports this year. https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-do-i-have-here-80025/#post755830

Trace said:

While this post is specifically about Tanzanian species, Chris explains why we haven't seen many imports this year. https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-do-i-have-here-80025/#post755830

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Yeah i know about the Tananian ban, but this is news to me. Anyway, just in case, theres a shipment that recently came in and the chams have now been treated for parasites etc and are ready for sale, so im gtting a new Faly male on Monday to add to my Storm line!

The great "purity" debate will rage on forever, and people will always try to discredit others to make more sales. I just let them get on with it, thats probably why i dint see any of it, because im not interested in the childish playground behaviour of some of the members on here so im good at avoiding it! lol

I am not a complete expert and perhaps one can weigh in as my education in Genetics is theoretical without a lot of real world experience.

The primary risk with inbreeding is an exaggeration of pre-existing genetic flaws, or if the population was small enough passing on of Genetic mutations with no additional genetic material to breed it out.

So as long as there is sufficient genetic variation already represented in captive breeding populations and the specimens are generally free of genetic mutation I can't imagine an import ban would have as much of an effect as many fear on established captive populations.

Also with Chameleons, especially the Panther locales I have to wonder how much Genetic variation there is to begin with. Those populations were likely the result of a very small population with specific color mutations.