Baby quads :)

Dooley1

Avid Member
Finally some baby quads are hatching. The father is a CH from Laurie and the mother is a WC from Chad imported in March of 2011.

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Kevin
 
You know, every time I see new pics of quads I fall in love with them a little more... They're adorable. Congrats!!:)
 
Finally some of Tuffy's grand babies. How many are you keeping and how many do I get to buy? I see no reason for us to share!! They are so cute, I could come get them tomorrow. But it would be a long trip home.:(

Congrats and enjoy. Could I ask for lots of pictures please?
 
I'll get some more pics out Laurie!

Only two out so far. I have to go check the incubator. I would like to keep 4 females if I get that many...and of course you know you won't have to pay. You have been waiting for a grand-quad for some time now :)

Kevin
 
Awesome! How many eggs were laid? How many have hatched and have yet to hatch? Congratulations and good luck raising them up. I know you are experienced, but my two cents worth to anyone raising quads or other montanes would be to avoid commercially bred insects that are fed on any kind of commercially fortified feeds because you may not know what amount of D3 (or other vitamins for that matter) may be in those feeds. Past experience has taught me it's too risky. So far, I've only fed the 14 quad neonates I have insects that I raise myself (fruitflies, silkworms, bean beetles and Dubia roaches) except for field sweepings. I should say that I only buy silkworm eggs then grow them up to the needed size using mulberry leaves from my property. I have no idea what vitamins (especially D3) that is put in the silkworm chow and until I know, I won't use it.
 
I forgot to ask if you gave preformed vitamin A to the mother before she developed the eggs. If so, what amount and what frequency? If you give preformed A as part of an multivitamin (e.g. Repashy's Calcium Plus), what brand do you use? For my adult females, I gave them a single drop of retinol (from a human gel tab) one to two times a month. However, the quad neonates only get preformed A (from Repashy's Calcium Plus) from a single feeding every other week. I wish that supplement didn't have any D3 (too risky with montanes in my experience) because I feel my quads can make all the D3 they need from UVB exposure. If Calcium Plus had no D3, I might consider dusting feeders with it once a week (primarily for the low preformed A). On the other days, I also lightly dust most of my feeders with every feeding (except for black soldier fly larvae and silkworms) with Repashy's pure calcium. I sent you a PM. I want on the list too! I need new blood! :D
 
I forgot to ask if you gave preformed vitamin A to the mother before she developed the eggs. If so, what amount and what frequency? If you give preformed A as part of an multivitamin (e.g. Repashy's Calcium Plus), what brand do you use? For my adult females, I gave them a single drop of retinol (from a human gel tab) one to two times a month. However, the quad neonates only get preformed A (from Repashy's Calcium Plus) from a single feeding every other week. I wish that supplement didn't have any D3 (too risky with montanes in my experience) because I feel my quads can make all the D3 they need from UVB exposure. If Calcium Plus had no D3, I might consider dusting feeders with it once a week (primarily for the low preformed A). On the other days, I also lightly dust most of my feeders with every feeding (except for black soldier fly larvae and silkworms) with Repashy's pure calcium. I sent you a PM. I want on the list too! I need new blood! :D

Repashy does maqke a vit a only formula with no d3 in it.
 
Repashy does maqke a vit a only formula with no d3 in it.[/QUO

True, but the levels are quite high, much higher than they are in the Calcium Plus. Many say it's better to give low doses of a particular vitamin more frequently than to give a high dose less frequently. That view certainly makes sense to me, which is why I would only consider using Repashy's Vitamin A Plus therapeutically in extreme cases of hypovitamintosis A. Although I think many more cases of organ damage (resulting in edema and stunted growth) are caused by overdose of D3, preformed vitamin A can cause organ damage/edema too if you give too much to your chameleons (particularly montanes). That is why I would prefer to use a low dose formula like that found in Repashy's Calcium Plus rather than Repashy's Vitamin A Plus. Even too much pure calcium can cause problems, which is why I dust lightly with pure calcium, simply to correct the calcium/phosphorus imbalance found in most feeder insects.

Perry
 
Thanks everyone :) I'm happy to hatch my first quads. It's funny to see them being raised in an enclosure next to the clutch of carpets, which hatch out so much smaller. The month old carpets are as big as the hatchling quads!

Sadly, only 7 hatched. The other 5 slit and that was it. Not sure why. These babies seem very active and robust though. I'll post more pics this weekend. They all look like females to me bases on the pattern so I'm obviously sexing them wrong. :rolleyes:

Kevin
 
Forgot to mention for Perry...I supplemented the female about every two months with 1 drop of vitamin A from a capsule.

Kevin
 
Forgot to mention for Perry...I supplemented the female about every two months with 1 drop of vitamin A from a capsule.

Kevin

Very interesting. I supplemented the mother of the babies I have one drop of preformed vitamin A from a gel tab once every month (twice as often as you), and 14 of the 16 eggs laid hatched. All the babies are still going strong (10 weeks old this week). To know whether I actually gave twice the amount as you, I'll need to look at the vitamin A bottle to estimate the concentration in one drop. The two eggs that didn't hatch did not slit, but the babies appeared fully formed. I know I told you, Kevin, but for everyone else reading this, I think I posted before about losing an entire clutch of quads. Even though they slit their eggs, none emerged. One stuck his head out but that is as far as he got. I believe the babies were simply too weak to hatch and the entire clutch was doomed from the start because of vitamin A deficiency in the mother. I was so fearful of giving her preformed vitamin A (I only used beta carotene), I completely avoided it. I'm definitely in the camp that believes that a small amount of preformed vitamin A is necesary for most species, or, at the very least, beneficial for producing strong neonates. I'm well aware of the vitamin A debate, and some will swear preformed A is not necessary, but in the instances I hear about, where no supplemental preformed vitamin A was given, the feeders were given vitamin fortified foods (dog foods, etc., which have preformed vitamin A).

Although many variables are involved, to try to increase the hatch rate and neonate survivability, I'd like to see how much I can raise the amount of preformed vitamin A I give to my two adult female quads while avoiding overdosing them. The problem is, should I cause a gular edema, often a symptom of organ malfunction or damage caused by overdosing, it's often too late. Permanent, irreversable organ damage may have occured, not just organ malfunction. I'm always very cautious though, and it's hard to experiment with my animals. None of us wants to lose even a single animal as a result of experimentation. For most people, myself included, there is always a tendency to treat an entire clutch in the way you think is best rather than to perform controlled experiments, even though the latter may be the best way to learn.

Perry
 
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