Baby Cages?

I have been thinking about this and thought it would be worth discussion. It comes up a lot how people have to buy 2 cages for a cham as they mature if you buy a baby; A baby cage and an adult cage. I have always wondered about this, given your baby has the right temps, is eating, drinking and pooping, would it really matter what size cage you raise him in? Why couldn't someone raise a baby in a 2x2x4 cage? The only reason I have heard for using small cages for babies is so that it is easier for them to find their food, and warm spots, but they manage to accomplish this in the wild, where the areas are much more vast than any enclosure we could provide.

I just can't see anyone losing a baby because it was housed in a cage that was too big, given the cage provided all the necessary factors.

I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this.

~Joe

I've wondered about this too, it seems like a pain to have to get more than one cage. Seems illogical to me that they could survive in the wild but supposedly could not survive in a simple 2x2x4 cage. Would it possibly be due to the insects provided may not go to the top of the cage and the chameleon won't go to the bottom of the cage because the chameleon feels more secure at higher levels off the ground? I too would also want to know more about this subject and possibly avoid having to buy more than one cage if I am to start off with a baby chameleon.

I personally find it much easier to monitor a baby in a smaller enclosure.
I sometimes have trouble finding them in a 12x18x20.
In addition to finding their food etc. they also require much smaller branches and a lot more of them. Feeders have a talent for going high into corners where baby tongues can't reach unless they are provided with a lot of "highways" going all over the enclosure. It is much easier to create an appropriate baby environment in a smaller enclosure (in my opinion)

-Brad

As far as feeders staying at the bottom... Dubias like it at the bottom, and worms fall their and die, but crickets all end up in the top corners of the cage.

For someone like myself who cup feeds, finding feeders is not an issue, no matter the size of the cage.

What do you mean by baby? I wouldn't feel comfortable raising my hatchlings in a 2x2x4. I think fruit flys and tiny crickets would escape, plus I like to know they are all getting a lot of food.

I'm going to assume you mean a 3+ month old because thats what most people would get. I don't see why you couldn't raise one up in a 2x2x4. But lets be real, who out there only gets one chameleon and would never have use for the other cage?

Brad Ramsey said:

I personally find it much easier to monitor a baby in a smaller enclosure.
I sometimes have trouble finding them in a 12x18x20.
In addition to finding their food etc. they also require much smaller branches and a lot more of them. Feeders have a talent for going high into corners where baby tongues can't reach unless they are provided with a lot of "highways" going all over the enclosure. It is much easier to create an appropriate baby environment in a smaller enclosure (in my opinion)

-Brad

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That makes great sense Brad... Thanks for the input. I am referring more to the situation of a newbie owner buying a 3-5 month old cham. (Edit: And even at this age you are right, extra steps would have to be taken in order to make it comfy for a little one.) I know that when caring for a clutch of hatchlings a big cage would not be the way to go. I kept Lombardi in a smaller cage at first cause I had one on hand... But when I look back at it... there is no doubt in my mind that he would have thrived just the same in cage he is in right now.

Edit...Man I'm slow today... Yeah Fidel I am speaking for the person buying a 3-5 month old cham.

I agree with you all. While it may be easier to monitor food intake in a smaller cage, there really shouldn't be a reason why they couldn't survive in a larger cage. If you cup feed, various feeding locations at different heights could take care of the cham finding food easier.
The only draw back I can think of (with a standard set up)off hand would be being able to keep the ambient temperature in the cage at appropriate levels. Sure the heat lamp will provide the necessary heat, but it may be in the high 60's in the bottom half of the cage(possibly lower in colder areas especially in the winter.)
So would it cause a baby cham have more of a chance of getting URI's, I'm not sure.

I got called crazy by most of the people I know over here when I decided to use a 2x2x4 enclosure for my yemen (only the one guy who I'd spoken to who also did it was very supportive). I got him at 3 months (pretty much to the day), and put him straight in! Here are some pictures (they're the only ones I could find)



You can see him slinking off in the last one.

I've never had an issue with him feeding. Initially I used crickets, and would strategically place them so that they'd be on a vine that would go passed him, make sure they headed in the right direction and he'd pick them off. If he was interested, I'd add no more. Feedings would take time, but I enjoyed doing it. Very quickly I got annoyed with crix, so I switched to locusts which were perfect! You can shove them in anywhere and they just make their way up towards the light, and guess who was always waiting to pick them off! I'd also hand feed worms (waxies/mealies etc as treats occasionally). I imagine you could skip a lot of the time and hassle I would go through by using a cup, but my guy never got the hang of it! Honestly, food in cup, wouldn't eat it. Take food out of cup, place it on a branch, and bam, dinner time!

I don't think struggling to find a basking spot is a problem regardless.

I prefer using a large cage initially as it gives your cham a lot more places to hide and is also more realistic for them, as it the wild they'd definitely have a lot more space that this anyway.

But if this is just an exercise on gutting down costs, I'd say it doesn't work as I'm looking to build a MUCH bigger enclosure for him anyway (hopefully 0.8x1.2x1.8m) so I'm still going to have a 'spare' enclosure! But as someone said, it won't be spare for long!

p.s - this is still probably my favourite picture of Dante the day after I got him out exploring his enclosure:

SoCaliSon said:

I have been thinking about this and thought it would be worth discussion. It comes up a lot how people have to buy 2 cages for a cham as they mature if you buy a baby; A baby cage and an adult cage. I have always wondered about this, given your baby has the right temps, is eating, drinking and pooping, would it really matter what size cage you raise him in? Why couldn't someone raise a baby in a 2x2x4 cage? The only reason I have heard for using small cages for babies is so that it is easier for them to find their food, and warm spots, but they manage to accomplish this in the wild, where the areas are much more vast than any enclosure we could provide.

I just can't see anyone losing a baby because it was housed in a cage that was too big, given the cage provided all the necessary factors.

I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this.

~Joe

Click to expand...

Sometimes we have the same opinion . But I think it's very importante to handle this from species to species. Someones aren't really easy to raise up. For those I prefer also small cages, espacially during the first 2-3 months. It's very hard with smaller species to give in their cages enough little feeders, so they get enough to eat. But when you have too much of them in the cage it stresses the small chameleons and some kinds of feeders, for example crickets could raise very fast so that the predator-prey-relationship changes.

But on the other hand there are species which are very activ, always on the run, which make no problems. For those I prefer bigger cages.

For a calyptratus like yours, which is already some months old a big cage wouldn't be a problem, but a smaller one will work also fine

That looks like a great setup, (s)he's one lucky chameleon!

Jakedn said:

That looks like a great setup, (s)he's one lucky chameleon!

Click to expand...

Thanks! He was, he's a lot bigger now! Which is why he needs a bigger enclosure! Definitely a he too!

Hey thanks for posting Slik! Very nice looking cage, and that guy has his own little world in there doesn't he! Do you have any recently pics of how is growing in that cage. This is not necessarily a money saving tactic, as who would get into this hobby to save money..lol, Just another option. The baby cage I used for Lombardi was used for less than 2 months... and then he was on to his big boy cage... If someone was doing their research and planning to get a Veiled, or a Panther(smallest I would raise a baby panther in is a 18x18x36, I don't think it would hurt to just recommend once cage size for them, depending on their situation.

I agree with you also Benny... And I really like the way you put to switch from predator to prey, with crickets, it is all to true... Too many crix, and the cham becomes the hunted. Just one of the reason I don't use crix, and I cup feed.

I'll try and get some pics tomorrow as he's asleep now. The grape vine is seasonal as it obviously loses its leaves in the winter, but it's starting to get them back now so it'll go in again, my guy absolutely loves to eat it you see! But most of the plants are still there. I've had to replace a couple as either the locusts or Dante has eaten them. But yeah, it just looks too small for him these days!

Here are those pics I promised!
This was taken a couple of months ago:



These 2 were taken just now:




Sorry he's not in the shots of the enclosure, but he really dislikes the camera!

Hope that helps!

Wow... I give that cage Layout and 10! Chameleon Eden!

Thanks! I will be improving it soon when I get the 6ft grape vine I've grown in there, well, it probably won't go in there as it'll go in his new enclosure! Can't wait to get it built now! Should start it soon hopefully! The plants also look bigger in real life.

don't feel bad our cage is 4' high, 4' long and about 18" deep and our cham is 3 months old. i put boards towards the top so he would not fall down since they can be a little clumsy but the little stinker climbs down sometimes on the screen sides to the bottom. Istill kept the boards there.