Another "New to Chameleons"

You experienced chameleon keepers must just love getting all these frantic pleas for help....

I have little experience with reptiles but have read a lot, mostly online.

Five days ago I bought a young female veiled chameleon from Petsmart. I think she is doing well. I've started weighing her and she is gaining weight. The first weight I have on her was 26 grams a few days ago. This morning before she woke up (and ate or drank), she weighed 29 grams. I'm using a good scale that parrot breeders would use. She seems to be gaining about a gram a day.

What is a "good" weight gain for a veiled chameleon of her size?

I'm not happy with my temperatures or humidity levels. I keep my house very cold, the ambient temperature of the room is in the mid 60s but will be colder at night.

She is caged in a 16" x 16" x 26" tall mostly glass terrarium. It has a screened top which is mostly covered by a variety of four lights, which is all that will fit on top of the screen. On one side, there is a screened section for ventilation 3.75" x 15.5" tall that goes to the top.

I've furnished the cage with live plants, a couple of branches and a bendy fake vine from the pet shop. Against the vertical screen I have placed a live bamboo plant to try to keep the humidity up. She mostly sits on the fake vine that is wound through the pseudo-bonsai ficus.

The bottom is now just paper towels. I was sold some shredded substrate, but removed that yesterday.

I have yet to find a bowel movement. Until yesterday, I had never seen her eat, although the dish with a few meal worms was emptied and crickets seem to be disappearing. I don't think she ate for the first couple of days or longer since I could easily find many of the original five or six crickets crawling around the branches and having the nerve to bask in the heat/light right in front of her.

She looks hydrated and round. Her long bones are straight. The sales rep, who seemed to be quite knowledgeable, told me they were fed crickets that were dusted with calcium.

I bought Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3 and Fluker's Orange Cube for the crickets. I also put Kale leaves in for the crickets and the meal worms. I have a big meal worm farm (for my chicks) that are fed chicken grower feed supplemented with veggies. I read somewhere that you shouldn't feed too many meal worms, I think because they had too much chitin. Would feeding meal worms that had just shed solve that problem? I dust the crickets and meal worms with calcium powder before I put them in the cage.

I've had a heck of a time finding a thermometer and hygrometer that works well. I have two in the cage now. I'm not sure I'm getting the basking perch warm enough.

Right now, I have four lights on over the cage.

At the back over the basking area: a double unit made by Zoo Med called "Tropical UVB and Heat Lighting Kit." The bulbs are Reptisun 5.0 UVB and a 60w Daylight Blue. Right now, the top of her casque is about 3 inches from the screen. The Reptisun bulb is almost on the screen, the Daylight Blue bulb is about 1.5 inches higher than the screen top.

I also have two other bulbs to increase the heat. Both are infrared spot bulbs made by All Living Things, 50w and 75w.

My thermometers are on the glass held by suction cups in the corner at about the same height as she basks. They register in the 70s to 80s during the day. At night, I turn off the Reptisun and the 60w Daylight Blue, leaving the 50w and 75w infrared spot bulbs on.

I don't think the cage is warm enough during the day. I think she spends too much time on the basking perch. How do you get an accurate temp on the basking area?

I have another question about her nostrils, hopefully picture attached. She has some dry white stuff around the nose, and near her eye. Is this just normal scale shedding? To me, she looks healthy, hydrated and is gaining weight.

I'm trying to upload a picture but think I failed.

Thanks for any help and advice from yet another person who knows next to nothing about the creature she is trying to care for.

https://accounts.google.com/Service...60954537233&service=lh2&ltmpl=gp&passive=true

Hopefully this will show the picture but I have my doubts. I would appreciate any help to download a picture.

Welcome to the forum-
The first thing you want to do is to get some plain calcium without D- you don't want to dust with D every day -
The care sheets here are good and will help https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/
Use calcium (without D3 or phosphorus) at nearly every feeding, multivitamin once every 2 weeks, and calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks.
The white around the nose is nothing to worry about - It's a common -
You don't want to use any lights at night - a drop into the 60 is fine and actually good for digestion- I use a temp gun to check the temps for my basking temps
I got it on Amazon for under 20 dollars - Getting the temps right takes a bit of time I use regular "daylight" bulbs in various wattage thought out the year -
The better you feed your crickets the better the chameleon will. I found a noticeable difference with my jackson and since she's more sensitive than the other two I figure that it helps them too. There are a couple of members who sell a better quality of dry gut load (cricket crack, bug buffet) than flukers but just adding a good mix of fresh stuff helps- I use the things on a bearded dragon's list of staple foods - there are good blogs on making your own- and just adding some of the right things you have around the house makes an improvement.
Stressing over your humidity and temps is very normal, It takes a bit of time to get everything right- don't stress too much- be careful that the top screen doesn't get so hot that it cause a burn- I don't have a veiled but it seems like quite a few like to sit too close to the top of their cages and get burns on their casts.

One thing I would change is your cage. Get an all screen cage. Airflow is very important. And you don't want your Cham to shoot his tongue out and possibly miss and instead it hits glass. That can be a huge game changer if he injures his tongue. Screen cages are very forgiving compared to glass if something like this happens.
Good luck. Veiled Chameleons are awesome pets!!

Welcome to the forum and the world of chameleons!

In addition to what you were already told...are you aware that female veileds can produce eggs without having mated? It's recommended that you put an opaque container at least 12" x 8" x 12" deep full of washed playsand in great cage to give her a place to lay eggs if/when she needs to. Failure to provide the container can lead to eggbinding and death.

Once she reaches sexually maturity ylu want to be sure you don't overfeed her or it can lead to health issues.

Also, you can feed /gutload the crickets, roaches, superworms and locusts with a wide assortment of greens such as collards, escarole, endive, dandelion greens, kale, etc and veggies such as carrots, sweet red pepper, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, etc.

Regarding the lights...the blue day light can be replaced with a regular household incandescent light bulb and I would not use any light at night.

Regarding changing to a screen cage...If your house is as cold as you say it is you will have difficulty keeping it warm enough during the day.

Thanks ever so much for everyone's advice.

I did find some calcium without Vitamin D, but it wasn't easy. This little veiled will be out in natural sunlight regularly, even in the winter. I'm in South Central Texas so can have temps in the 90s in January--or the 20s. On warm days, I'll get her outside in pen around a potted tree under the real sun so might be able to completely avoid using Vitamin D.

Do you really think she can cope with temps down to 60 at night? I know in their natural habitat it can get to freezing, but a chameleon in the wild is not the stressed animal that is in captivity. I've left just one 50w night heat bulb on her cage. I might find the courage to turn it off tonight.

I did find an infrared thermometer, so I am happy that I can get an accurate reading of the basking areas and even her skin.

I'm trying to feed her bugs that are very well fed--I guess the term is gut loaded. I'm not crazy about the crickets I've been able to buy--most just die no matter what I do. Any suggestions on how to keep crickets alive? They have greens and Flukers Orange Cubes.

I'm going to dig through my compost pile and see if my soldier fly larvae are still alive after the freeze last week. I'll pull some out, wash them and then feed them on super healthy green veggies. Has anyone ever stored soldier fly larvae in the fridge to slow them down and stop them from developing?

What other bugs can I buy to feed her? I do have a lot of meal worms and will sort through them to find ones that have shed recently. How many meal worms a day can I feed her before there is a problem with their exoskeletons cause her problems?

I'm really happy with her appetite. She's gaining weight every day. She's eating crickets that are bigger than the books say she should eat (the local store was out of small crickets). She even ate some when I offered them to her on my hand.

So, is the consensus to dust the crickets ever time with calcium?

At what age is she sexually mature? Or is it a size thing? How will I know?

I intend to buy a screen enclosure. I was thinking of a 24" x 24" x 48" one that I saw on FL Chams. Any other suggestions on where to buy a good screen cage? I can't imagine there is such a thing as a too big cage.

Before I move her into a new cage, I want to get her through this stressed stage of being young, changing homes, coming from a pet shop with all the stresses of being on display and now not having consistent heat and humidity.

I do let her out on a large hibiscus tree in the window beside her cage. I put lights over her in the tree. She loves that. I imagine 24" x 24" x 48" is going to be too small...

Thanks so much for your help.

If the temps are a problem buy a heat emitter. That is like a light bulb, but there is no light, just heat. They come in a large variety of sizes, so you can get more or less heat. Just made very sure she can't get close enough to get burned. They get hot.

Soldier fly larvae they say not to keep in the fridge- you can lower the temps to the 50's to keep them longer. They are a great feeder especially for little chams- my bigger guys will turn there noses up at them but I got some this week after not having them for a while and they all enjoyed them- except the panther who has become quite the picky eater. I also like silkworms and blue bottle flies - When mine were younger and eating more than once a day I would dust their early meal but not their afternoon snacks most of the time.
I'm not going to answer your question on temps as I don't have a veiled except to say that all of mine (not veiled) are fine with lows in the 60s - a light at night they are not fine with- my road was closed due to them repairing a bridge and I had problems with my jackson untill I figured that the cars going by were disturbing her sleep when they re opened the road.
Finding calcium without D can be quite a chore - but too much D isn't good and lots of new members first post is in the health section because they're over doing the D- outside time is great - just make sure birds or other preditors can't get her (this includes the two legged kind too)
The enclosure section has some great ideas for free ranging - and letting her out of her cage is a great way to give her more room to roam- the 24 x 24 x 48 is a good size for a full grown veiled.
I've never seen a bigger cage for sale but Canvas made me a double sized one for my panther and he loves it.
I also have a smaller Canvas for my Jackson and a Dragonstrand for my flapneck - they are all sponsors and I'm very happy with all of them-
I too would wait - it gives you more time to shop around and figure out what will work best for you and her and it's a good idea to let her settle in for a while
There are some signs that she's getting old enough for a laying bin this
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html is helpfull

Thanks everyone for your patience in answering my questions. It must get tiring to have to answer the same questions over and over again, but it really helps to have an experienced reptile keeper make comments.

I guess I wasn't clear about the light at night--it isn't a light, but an infrared spot that gives off almost no light, just a purple glow that isn't brighter than moonlight.

I did well up the courage to turn off all the heat last night and she managed to survive.

Is it possible to feed a growing chameleon too much? This little girl seems to be quite the biggie. She weighed 26 grams the first time I weighed her a week ago and now weights 36 grams.

Can they get kidney trouble from too much calcium?

How often do they have a bowel movement?

I had her outside in the sun today. She wasn't at all happy in the little screen cage I had her in. I'll have to make a big cage around one of my safe plants/trees so she will be happy. She was really happy to be out roaming about on a big hibiscus plant, but I can't be there all the time to be sure she is safe.

The more outside time she gets the less happy she is to be in her little cage...

Thanks again for your help. They are much more enduring than I imagined them to be.

They can still see that light. What I do is have blue led lights on for the moon light but they go off at 10pm then its completely dark until 6:30am.

I don't think its possible to feed to much if the cham is willing to eat it.

They should be going poop every day if they are eating every day.

Just a few things I would add to the good advice you have already received. First I personally think 3" from her head is too close she could get burned from the UVB, and possibly the heat source. Being a female I would shoot for about the mid 80s on the basking temp to help keep her metabolism down so she wont want to eat as much keeps the egg production down. As was already stated too many eggs can affect her health. She should reach sexual maturity at around 6 months, and yes veileds do grow fast. And as far as your temps go as long as your basking area is correct you should be fine with the lower temps. as long as she can warm up she will be fine I would say you would just have a more varied heat radiant for her to regulate her temps. OH yah welcome to the forums.

Brownie64, are you suggesting she might get a sunburn from the Reptisun 5.0 bulb?

Poop questions: I found her first bowel movement two or three days ago, and it was well-formed and large (in my opinion). If anything, I would think it was on the dry side. That was the first poop I had found. She had come from a pet shop, not eaten for a few days plus at I had shredded coconut litter on the bottom of the cage, so who knows if I just missed others. I don't think so but it is possible. Yesterday she had another bowel movement. This was much looser and sticky, but not diarrhea. Is there a section on the forum that has pictures of normal poop? Do they not have urine? I would have expected their poop to be like a bird's, composed of the stool, urates and clear urine. So far, I haven't seen evidence of urine and the urates have been a long, solid mass.

Thanks, everyone.

I just skimmed, so there may have been things other keepers addressed, or things i may have missed.

The ONE thing i felt it most important to mention is you should not be using a D3 supplement if youre exposing her to direct sunlight.

Other than that supplementation is up to debate, one thing that is generally agreed upon is excessive D3 and multivitamin can be just as bad as not enough. Gutloading is ideal but if you dont have the time or budget multivites maybe once a month should compensate for what is missing from her diet.

Youre spot on about the mealworm chitin, not digestible and cause bowel obstruction. A slightly better alternative is super worms. Essentially XL mealworms that you cant refrigerate. Theyre easier to gutload too.

From what i remember the fluckers cubes are crap but i cant remember why, lol.

Oh also the crust on her nose is from the calcium. If you cut back on the calcium it should go away, i think i remember someone saying that its salt but i do believe there is a direct correlation between that and excessive calcium. It is harmless though so dont worry about that.

UHH what else, you gave a lot of info,

turn the light off at night (timers are great). screen cages are better but glass is doable. becareful about WC insect you neighbors could be dumping pesticides everywhere.

OH dont just feed her as much as she will eat, a overly abundant diet can lead to excessive egg production which is very taxing on their bodies. Especially if you arent breeding her, its just an unessicary stress in her life and on her heath. Someone suggested cooling her down to slow her metabolism which it would but simply restricting her diet to a little less than all she will eat should do the trick. She needs to warm up for other bodily functions anyway.

uhhh i could probably keep going but ill leave it at that. this is becoming time consuming GL have fun

jajeanpierre said:

Brownie64, are you suggesting she might get a sunburn from the Reptisun 5.0 bulb?.

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With the setup you described I'm assuming you have a CFL UVB bulb. So yah IMHO the intensity can be more localized with these bulbs, and being too close could possibly burn them and their eyes. I would say about 10"-12" is a more appropriate distance. The closer she is to the light the stronger the UVB. And I would definitely be concerned about thermal burns from the heat lamp at that distance. You got your new infrared heat gun see how hot her casque is when she is basking. I had a male who got too close to the heat source, and he burnt his casque, and a chunk of it fell off their skin isn't as sensitive as ours so sometimes they burn themselves before they realize it. Good luck.

New to forums

I have just bought a 1 yr old Panther Chameleon. He came with 18x18x36 cage lights mister. He started to shed and became very aggressive. I have only had him for 5 days. The first 2 days he was fine then bit me when I went to move him. Is this normal?

cappepm said:

I have just bought a 1 yr old Panther Chameleon. He came with 18x18x36 cage lights mister. He started to shed and became very aggressive. I have only had him for 5 days. The first 2 days he was fine then bit me when I went to move him. Is this normal?

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Welcome to the forums! You'll want to start your own thread to get replies. For now:

It's a very big change for your little guy. Try to look at it from his perspective: everything in his entire life has just changed, he doesn't know the area or the predators or really where he can safely hide, then this giant ape sticks its big paws right in his face. You would freak out too, it's absolutely normal. Give him a week or two to get settled. You never want to grab him from behind or above. Hold out a hand flat in front of him or try a stick to coax him out when needed. Some (many) chameleons never really like to be handled, that's why they are described as more a "look but don't touch" pet. Be patient and gentle!