Am I getting scammed?

So, I purchased a panther (won't mention locale) from one of the threads on this site's classifieds. I paid the seller via PayPal in January.

The seller keeps pushing off the shipping date, saying that it's too cold where I am to ship now. I'm in NH, and the cham is coming from the western most coast (again, trying to be vague).

I've had a total of 3 other chameleons shipped to me this winter without any problems, two of which just actually arrived today. The breeder of the two that I got today put off shipping for a week, to wait until the lows here were at least 20, and said they would be fine with a 72-hour heat pack. Sure enough, these two were crazy active out of the box.

Anyways, back to the seller in question. He's saying that because this cham is coming from the west coast, he's used to warm weather and not the NH cold, that he is literally going to have to travel coast to coast, and that he would be making a layover in Memphis during the night, where the temps are low. He said that he doesn't feel comfortable shipping until the lows are 55. I've spoken to other breeders, and they said they're all willing to ship now (high of upper 50s, low of high 20s).

The issue I'm having is that he never mentioned to me that he wouldn't ship until 55 when I sent him the money (yes, maybe I should have asked). I didn't suspect anything when he told me it's too cold to ship, back when I paid him, because we were going through a two-week cold spell with lows in single digits and highs in the teens. But, beyond three months, you can no longer file a claim with PayPal for a refund. The way in which he is describing things to me, it just seems like he's trying to buy some time to get it past the 3-month window to open a claim (deadline is in two weeks - no chance for low of 55).

I really don't even want to suspect that someone on this site would scam another member, and I certainly want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt where they're innocent until proven guilty. However, I have been scammed big time in the past and know how easy it is today with all of these blind, online transactions.

What would you all do? I have asked him if I could get a refund and just pay him when he's ready to ship, but he declined that, saying that I might back out when the time comes.

If he is a genuine seller, I don't want to seem like the a$$ for filing a claim with PayPal, especially where he's a member of this forum and he may turn it around on my reputation. He keeps assuring me that I will get gorgeous, healthy chams if I am patient, and that he'll take good care of the chams while I wait for them, and that he'll guarantee I'll be happy with them.

Literally, the way this winter has been, I'll be waiting another two or three months for the lows to be 55+

IMHO I think someone who is reputable would agree to the refund until he is ready to ship. What risk is on his end in not selling, if the cham is as he said "so beautiful and worth the wait."? Hope this gets resolved for you soon! What a crappy predicament

You should file a claim before 3 months cuz it sounds kinda fishy. Do you still have the link of the post?

Have you checked the seller out on the Fauna Classifieds Board of Inquiry? Use various spellings and searches and use his real name if you have it. Start there and use that information to decide how you want to proceed.

Without knowing the details, if it were a small time breeder or someone with a surprise clutch who doesn't deal with this professionally, I would understand being nervous about low temperatures... but the unwillingness to refund the money until ready to ship would make me suspicious.

If you feel uneasy, do your research but listen to your gut. Read up on Paypal's terms and advise the seller of actions you are taking before you take them to give the seller a chance to make things right. That's my advice.

ya if it has taken that long I would refund and find another breeder. You do not want to be scammed.

I agree with the other posters. I would check Fauna's BOI, but I would definitely file a claim if you are uncomfortable with the situation. Three months is a long time to wait for something you paid for.

Good luck

Thanks, guys. I didn't know about that resource on fauna - will definitely check it out.

I was going to try to check his activity and history on this site, but the original ad has been deleted and I can't remember his username. I do, however, have his real name from PayPal.

Use his real name on Fauna. Double check back in your PM's and your subscribed threads to find his screen name. Chances are they are just an inexperienced shipper not used to dealing with chilly weather but better to be on the proactive side.

Being from New Hampshire you probably won't see a low of 55 until the end of April.

Carl

I would file the paypal dispute. If it is just a misunderstanding he will step up to the plate and resolve the issue. Having your paypal account locked up is a lot of motivation to work it out. i use my account way to much to get it locked up. jmo

So, I went to Fauna BOI, and they were basically completely useless. They locked my thread, stating that the rules are that I post the seller's name, which is what I was trying to avoid to begin with - making quick assumptions. They said I can post in the regular forums, which would make it no different than what I'm doing here. I ran a search for his name and got no hits.

Unrelated to your situation, but my brother was scammed on kijiji ( it was his own fault ). Someone from London Ontario wanted to buy a salt water tank he was selling, and said they would reimburse shipping when it shipped. They also said they would have an agent pick up the tank to ship. They kept giving him the run around, PayPal tried to track him and get the money back but they used a fake account so there was nothing they could do. It turned out that everything they gave my brother was fake even the shipping they set up was fake and the money he paid out was lost. Lukily he never send out the tank. And sold it locally and made most of the money back.


I would say go with your gut. If it doesn't feel right then it's most likely not.
Don't take the chance.

symphonica said:

So, I went to Fauna BOI, and they were basically completely useless. They locked my thread, stating that the rules are that I post the seller's name, which is what I was trying to avoid to begin with - making quick assumptions. They said I can post in the regular forums, which would make it no different than what I'm doing here. I ran a search for his name and got no hits.

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using the BOI incorrectly from it's stated purpose certainly doesn't make it useless. it's directions are extremely clear: either use it to search for a name to see if it's in the database, OR begin a thread supplying ALL FACTS supporting your claim, names, addresses, reposting email/PM exchanges, dates, etc. that is why the BOI exists. otherwise as they and their directions say, stick to anonymous and informal posting. at this point it would probably be unwise to post there since you admit you have been making assumptions. however if you do get scammed, pull out your claws and then use the BOI.

as the #1 site which exists for this purpose, i have a lot of respect for their position. it takes cojones (and some serious legal discussions) to allow a forum like that on your site, but Rich Z. has done us all a favor by creating it. Brad does NOT want a similar forum on the CF, and refers all to the BOI as well.

symphonica said:

So, I went to Fauna BOI, and they were basically completely useless. They locked my thread, stating that the rules are that I post the seller's name, which is what I was trying to avoid to begin with - making quick assumptions. They said I can post in the regular forums, which would make it no different than what I'm doing here. I ran a search for his name and got no hits.

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The Fauna BOI has specific rules for good reason. It is so easy to misunderstand who is writing, who is being reviewed, and who is actually providing the feedback you are looking for without using real names. Cham forums does not do this as we don't venture into that whole arena. I have lurked and read reviews on the BOI for years so understand how they work. You don't have to post a "bad guy" report if you are not sure there's a reason, but you have the option to post an inquiry---or an information post asking others if they have ever dealt with your seller. There's a different post icon to use; either the question mark or the lightbulb. It won't come off as an insult or an accusation that way. If your seller is legit, they should not mind your post at all, as it would give them a chance to respond as well.

Personally, I would also be reluctant to ship a cham cross country during winter (especially this winter!). Just because other breeders will doesn't really help you. Everyone's shipping situation or options are a little different. I wonder if you could negotiate a private agreement with your seller over this. So many of these things fall apart simply because someone gets defensive or feels insulted. There's no reason for this yet IMHO. Part of your deal would be to do the refund to get the PayPal problem out of the way, and agree to complete another sale for this same animal a little later in spring. Is there any reason you have to receive this cham sooner? Believe me I understand you want your animal sooner than later, but putting its life at risk because one of you is uncomfortable isn't worth it.

symphonica said:

So, I went to Fauna BOI, and they were basically completely useless. They locked my thread, stating that the rules are that I post the seller's name, which is what I was trying to avoid to begin with - making quick assumptions. They said I can post in the regular forums, which would make it no different than what I'm doing here. I ran a search for his name and got no hits.

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I read your thread on the Fauna BOI and while they did lock your thread, you were just asked to read the rules and if you did not want to name a seller, the thread should be on the general discussion forum. The BOI is for inquiries into specific sellers and as Carlton said you can use the question mark icon and it does not count negatively at all. Were you asking for a refund then wanted him to hold the chams for you? I would think that if he gave you a refund he would then be able to sell them to someone else either local or who was willing to wait.
Hopefully you can work something out or maybe have better weather!

If the seller is doing this for the sake of the chameleons health and life then you should understand and just wait wait. If he isn't comfortable with having the chameleon shipped, it is best to wait until the weather is better. I understand that you have probably spent a lot of money on the chameleon but honestly, the safety of the chameleon is and should be the MAIN concern.

Not to worry you but when you use paypal as I ALWAYSE DO you have buyer protection so if he dosent ship to you or it's not what you ordered or doa god forbid you can get your money back tgi paypal lol

True, but you only have a certain time frame in which to file a claim. I think that's what the OP is worried about. The time frame in which a claim could be filed is almost over. I think the seller should refund the payment, and have the buyer issue a new payment. That way the time frame would start over, the seller doesn't worry about losing a sale and the buyer doesn't worry about losing their money.

Update: I told him that I was starting to wonder whether I'll receive the animal at all. No response. Three days later, sent him a concerned email asking whether he was okay, why he isn't responding, and whether he could send me some pictures of the animal. Two days later, sent him a text asking for response or I would file PayPal claim. A day later, sent him one more text. A week later, still no response. Finally opened a PayPal claim. You guys tell me whether he's a scammer or a genuine breeder who's "just concerned about the wellness of the animal."

Melissa is right on. If you don't understand, you must just be extremely naive. The whole point was that PayPal only gives you 90 days from the transaction date to file a claim for an item not received. This 90-day timeframe, PayPal believes, should be more than enough time to know whether you've been scammed or not. However, the concern here is that the seller keeps pushing back the date, trying to get it past the 90-day mark so that I'm not able to file a non-receipt chargeback.

By the way, I have a dozen triceros johnstoni adults. 5 males, 5 females. Great way to start your own breeding colony, to keep some as pets, and to sell some as profit. Asking only $2500 for the whole lot, which comes out to being about $208 each, which you know is a killer deal for these guys! I'm only asking $200 for each because I was just scammed by a member on this site and need the money ASAP. You must submit full payment of $2500 via PayPal, tonight, for this offer to stand. After tomorrow, the price will go back up to $500 per chameleon. Because I've never shipped before, and because I live in a cold state at the very edge of the country, where the chameleons have a long way to travel, I will not ship until July (except I guess I'm not supposed to tell you that critical piece of info until *after* you send me the payment). If interested, please send PayPal payment to [email protected]

symphonica said:

Update: I told him that I was starting to wonder whether I'll receive the animal at all. No response. Three days later, sent him a concerned email asking whether he was okay, why he isn't responding, and whether he could send me some pictures of the animal. Two days later, sent him a text asking for response or I would file PayPal claim. A day later, sent him one more text. A week later, still no response. Finally opened a PayPal claim. You guys tell me whether he's a scammer or a genuine breeder who's "just concerned about the wellness of the animal."

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Well, at the time you first posted we were all hoping for you that the seller would try to make it right. The weather HAS been terrible this winter! No reputable breeder would stop responding completely. Since then, he's shown himself to be dishonest. File away, and start a Bad Guy thread on the BOI so others don't get caught. Sometimes a BOI thread will bring the sellers out of the woodwork for other potential customers to see and karma's a bi*&ch.

symphonica said:

By the way, I have a dozen triceros johnstoni adults. 5 males, 5 females. Great way to start your own breeding colony, to keep some as pets, and to sell some as profit. Asking only $2500 for the whole lot, which comes out to being about $208 each, which you know is a killer deal for these guys! I'm only asking $200 for each because I was just scammed by a member on this site and need the money ASAP. You must submit full payment of $2500 via PayPal, tonight, for this offer to stand. After tomorrow, the price will go back up to $500 per chameleon. Because I've never shipped before, and because I live in a cold state at the very edge of the country, where the chameleons have a long way to travel, I will not ship until July (except I guess I'm not supposed to tell you that critical piece of info until *after* you send me the payment). If interested, please send PayPal payment to [email protected]

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Awesome deal! Too good to be true! All your math looks correct! I sent you the money using PayPal's friends and family function so you can cheat PayPal out of fees and so I don't have any buyer's protection! Email me back at [email protected]!!!

That's unfortunate. Hopeful JerkPal will return your money. FYI to everyone, PayPal gives you no promise on animals that arrive DOA. There's very little luck that you get your money back under that situation. That's why it's very important to know the sellers live arrival guarantee and get it in writing.

Definitely time for a BOI Bad Guy post. Follow all the forum rules, use real names, and upload all your proof. If they did it to you, they have done it before and will do it again. You should also send Brad a PM with the member's name here.