8 Month veiled seems lethargic

Cage Info:

* Cage Type -Repti-soemthing, black mesh cage with black pvc pipe frame. it is about 30h, 28w, 16d.
* Lighting - one 12" reptisun bulb, 1 compact UV bulb, one halogen basking light. lights are on 12 hours a day approx, 730-730. on the weekends or when i get home from work on sunny days, i put his entire cage outside and keep the inside lights off. on the weekends, he can be outside for the entire day or just a few hours, and on the week days he may be outside one day out of the 5 for 2 or so hours.
* Temperature - What temperature range have you created? 65 low to about 85 high, although closer to 90 this past weekend. Basking spot temp? around 95F What is the temperature at night? 60-65F
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? always been around 60% i would say. i spray the cage at least 3 times a day, and i have a living plant inside that gets watered.
* Plants - one living plant, scheffleras (sorry about that spellling)
* Location - cage is in my room on a dresser. fairly low traffic other than me getting into/out of bed. i have a ceiling fan that i keep on low to circulate air, and just recently i bought an air purifier that is a few feet away from his cage (could this also have something to do with it anything??)

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Male Veiled born Nov 07, about 8 Months
* Feeding - Eats crickets daily, about 4-5 that i add to the cage in the morning. The crickets have some gutload meal that they come with when i buy them, and i supply them with carrots, and celery to munch on. he also enjoys wax worms and butter worms, and the occasional moth that i am able to catch. he seems to really like the moths when they are flying around.
* Supplements - crickets dusted with calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks, Reptivite w/o D3 abotu every 3 weeks. i dont want to over do it, so maybe i have tended to under do it. please advise.
* Watering - My chameleon's entire cage is misted about 3 times a day, morning, 2-3pm, and then about 6pm. i do see him drink, although i do not stand around and wait for him like i have seen mentioned.
* Fecal Description - dark brown, firm looking with a small amount of white. how often should i be seeing him poo?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you: purchased from a reputable breeder via the internet
* Current Problem - he seems very lethargic, not moving too fast, and when he does move he seems like he is straining to reach stuff to grab. he doesnt seem very agile, and at times he sits with one or two legs not holding on, simply extended out into the air. at this very moment he is sleeping completely upside down, tail up, holding on with his tail and hind legs. his forelimbs are hanging down beneath him. i am concerned about dehydration since it has been really hot lately. recently when i sprayed him he seemed to lick it straight from the sprayer. at one point he seemed to almost vomit, but nothing solid came out, just a tad bit of saliva or something. it creeped me out since i have never seen him do it before.


thanks for any help, i am just a little worried since this is all sorta of new behavior. i appreciate it all so let me hear it

here he is all colored up



here his is today, lower left leg extended out, just hanging around like this

Sometimes things are just not obvious in a picture .... or they seem to be something they are not ... having posted that disclaimer ... I would have him checked out for MBD.
I'm not saying that he has it ... I just have a feeling, and his limbs just look a little "off" to me. (sorry, can't think of a better description)
Your calcium supplementation is quite low. He needs Calcium without D3 about 3 times a week ...
And the lighting seems excessive, and it incorporates a compact fluorescent (is this a UVB one?) which is not recommended.

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

-Brad

thank you for your comments Brad. i just got done reading your link that i found in another post on this forum. i think what i have gathered is that i should up the calcium without D3, and basically get a bigger better light.

you are correct on the lights, i do have one compact fluoro 5.0 uvb and a 12'' fluoro 5.0 uvb. i will scrap both for a 24 incher i think.

i will also look into possibly seeing a vet about this. do you think that if by chance you were correct on the MBD, it could be corrected by implementing the above mentioned changes? i do understand that everything you type does come with a disclaimer, just wondering about your honest opinion.

If there is an issue with his bone development, I would have high hopes for correcting the problem and having a healthy guy.
It's not a bad idea to have a wellness check anyway, take a fecal sample if you can.
Do you have a qualified vet?
There is a link to finding one in your area on the forums and on my site as well.

-Brad

I am going to add that it really might be the pictures.
No one has been little around here for awhile and I forget that they have those little Popeye arms when they are young .... it could just be that.
Still .. i think a visit would be a good idea.

-Brad

that left leg of him (on the last 2 pictures) looked awfully funky.
I think he might have broken legs either from a fall or MBD problem.
Get him to a qualified vet; in the meantime, when the weather allow, let him bask outside to his heart contents.

last night i saw him struggling to right himself from his upside down position. he struggled and couldnt do much, so i assisted him, put him higher in his cage on a more level space. this morning he is sort of hanging by his arms body below. there is definitely something wrong and im going to check into a vet today.

i will keep you guys posted, and a very big thanks to those who have commented thus far. i really appreciate it.

went to my normal vet who knows about reptiles, he discovered a fractured left hind leg, the one in the pictures. he took an xray, and also discovered some weak looking bones. he gave a dose of calium something to my cham, and referred me to another vet who specializes in exotic reptiles.

sounds like metabolic bone disease and that is what he also said. what is the normal way to cure this? i have an appt for tomorrow, just want to know what to expect.

thanks for your help.

cupcheck said:

went to my normal vet who knows about reptiles, he discovered a fractured left hind leg, the one in the pictures. he took an xray, and also discovered some weak looking bones. he gave a dose of calium something to my cham, and referred me to another vet who specializes in exotic reptiles.

sounds like metabolic bone disease and that is what he also said. what is the normal way to cure this? i have an appt for tomorrow, just want to know what to expect.

thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/health-section-b-metabolic-bone.html

cupcheck said:

went to my normal vet who knows about reptiles, he discovered a fractured left hind leg, the one in the pictures. he took an xray, and also discovered some weak looking bones. he gave a dose of calium something to my cham, and referred me to another vet who specializes in exotic reptiles.

sounds like metabolic bone disease and that is what he also said. what is the normal way to cure this? i have an appt for tomorrow, just want to know what to expect.

thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

Heightened supplementation of calcium, whether through injections, liquid supplement or otherwise will be the primary treatment. As much exposure to natural sunlight as possible will also aid in getting your chameleon "back on track"
If it is positively determined that MBD is the culprit or your animal is "borderline" it is going to take some disciplined extra effort on your part to improve the situation.
Good luck with him, he is a nice looking animal and should have decent success in his recovery.
He probably won't ever be as good as if this didn't happen ... but he can get pretty good and still have a great life.
Thank you for taking him to the vet and giving him a chance.

-Brad

To correct the calcium imbalance, the vet can give the chameleon a series of calcium injections over a period of a few weeks. When the blood calcium levels are high enough, a shot of calcitonin can be given to rapidly draw the calcium back into the bones. The blood calcium levels have to be high enough that when the calcium is drawn back into the bones the levels in the blood remain appropriate.

what kind of money are we talking to do these shots to raise calcium levels? just wondering.

a quick thought about irony: i have just been diagnosed with a condition where i have too high levels of calcium in my blood...what are the odds. too bad i cant share with him : (

The real expense is going to be the vet visits ... calcium is not an expensive supplement.
So .... it will depend on what the vet charges and how much of this you will be able to do yourself per the doctors instructions.

-Brad